Remote workers doing multiple jobs in the same time frame, getting away with it, underperforming.

[flashbac]

"Remote working has made it easier than ever for staff to moonlight. But how do they cope with clashing meetings and two bosses? And can the rewards be worth the lies?"

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/nov/16/its-the-biggest-open-secret-out-there-the-double-lives-of-white-collar-workers-with-two-jobs

Can you imagine having two computers on and being on two zoom meetings simultaneously? (Advice is to mute yourself and turn camera off.)

I think this if CF territory. I hope it doesn't become more mainstream. Remote working is a force for good. These CFs might ruin it for everyone.
And aibu to think the bullshittting aspect of this will be easier for men to get away with? Here is someone explaining how to get away with underperformance. Apparently if you keep sending your manager emails about how hard you are trying they will stay off your back:

overemployed.com/set-low-expectations-at-your-two-remote-jobs/

@Magicalwoodlands

I think there’s a bigger societal problem that fed beyond the individual though. As a very general rule I don’t think homes make good workplaces, and I think it has far reaching impacts.

Emergency situation (pandemic) no problem. Long term? No.

That assumes that WFH means literally working from home.

There are plenty of other options and lots of co-working spaces which were closed during lockdown but are open again now. They do cost to use but may be much cheaper than an expensive commute. It depends on your role, eg if you need two screens or have to make a lot of confidential calls it will need to be home or office but lots of people can work anywhere with just a laptop.

My local council office has a business centre where you can rent a desk for £10 a day. Another local co-working hub charges £25 a week! Compared with the £35 train fare to the office, it's a bargain.

@Spiceup

Many MPs do this, what's the issue?

Umm have you not noticed that just this month it has become a huge issue culminating in both parties proposing that it's banned?

There is no proposal to ban MPs from having second jobs. There is a proposal, which a significant number, no doubt including my MP will vote against, to stop them being paid to lobby government and use their position as an MP to do the bidding of those paying them rather than to represent their constituencies. There will be a sudden increase in the already ludicrous amount of hospitality and perks that companies give to MPs.

@DeepaBeesKit

Also - of course employment contracts don't explicitly state you can't work two full time jobs at the same time.

Mine requires me to disclose other paid roles & certain other non paid roles too. It's not unusual.

Mine too, and more recent contracts require staff to seek permission before taking on other paid work.

This came about when a manager set up their own business and was caught doing that work during her F/T employed hours. All they could find to do her for was failing to disclose a conflict of interest, for which she was demoted and moved to the far side of the county. She left a few weeks later.

It did them a right favour, she'd been on capability proceedings for bullying staff 3 times but managed to get away with it, and was a renowned skiver, but they could never prove it.

My local council office has a business centre where you can rent a desk for £10 a day. Another local co-working hub charges £25 a week! Compared with the £35 train fare to the office, it's a bargain.

I really, really resent the suggestion that employees should start paying for their own office space. It seems like such an unreasonable shift of responsibility and cost from employer to employee.

There is absolutely no point to working from home and then ‘buying’ an office!

Two FT jobs must be rare but 2 p/t jobs or a side hustle is pretty normal.

If you're paid for 8 hours work a day and finish it in 6, then you should be asking for 2 hours more of work, not swanning off.

That's BS

I’d never thought of this but what a great idea. As a PP noted, if MPs can do it, even when there’s a conflict of interest, then of course the rest of us should be allowed to do it.

@ColinTheKoala why would you rent a desk...when your home is free?🤷‍♀️

If you’re being paid to do a job and you’re doing that job well, why does it matter if you’re taking 6 hours instead of 8?

Because most senior ish white collar jobs are not work to rule like this. Your objective might be something like "Deliver your x number of projects to a high standard, create thought leadership for the business, manage and develop your team, win business"
So there are never two spare hours- there are ongoing less urgent objectives around training, pipeline development, internal improvements, etc etc. Your salaried role is to take on responsibility for making the business as good as it can be.

I have a friend who is a self employed contractor currently doing 2 full time jobs and 1 part time job. He is having to do long hours to fit it all in but is making a hell of a lot of money.

[quote Kitkat151]@ColinTheKoala why would you rent a desk...when your home is free?🤷‍♀️[/quote]
Loads of people do it

@Hiphopopotamus

If people are genuinely more productive at home, then I don't know why companies are not increasing objectives. If you're paid for 8 hours work a day and finish it in 6, then you should be asking for 2 hours more of work, not swanning off. And if there is no more work, then maybe the company will need less staff?

This attitude is so wrong. If you’re being paid to do a job and you’re doing that job well, why does it matter if you’re taking 6 hours instead of 8?

Because most people are paid to work a certain number of hours (at a certain level of productivity), not to do x, y and z tasks in a day. Your employer is paying for your time, so if you're doing the job more quickly it's professional to raise this and not just decide you can't be bothered.

If you are paid to do a certain job (e.g. clean a house) and do it to a good standard then it's perfectly fine to do it more quickly.

I read this article and just thought ' Of course that happens!' . I'd just considered it before.

OK, taking on two full time jobs is a bit extreme, and very dodgy, but I bet the new WFH culture is rife for side hustles.

Child care, dog walking, ebaying, online mystery shopping..that's just a few off the top of my head I can think of.

All that's needed is a trusting employer, and let's face it, a lot of people soon wouldn't want to WFH if they closely monitored , or as visible as they are in the workplace.

The ' I can do 8 hrs work in 6, so the other 2 hours are mine' argument is a bit spurious . What would you do in an office? just put your feet up for two hours? of course you should find more work to do if you are being paid for it.

I'm playing devils advocate here anyway, I have one day a week WFH, and I would say I do half of what I would do in the office when I've done with childcare, dog walking and housework.

On the days I wfh I'm far more productive although I don't combine it with childcare.

I think a lot of employers don’t realise just how little people work in the office. It’s harder to track what everyone’s doing as you can just go and have a natter / go for a nap for 2 hours and pretend you were in a meeting. You can’t do that if all your meetings are Teams based. The managers who don’t realise how beneficial wfh is to their organisation probably don’t understand the technology that underpins it.

Actually I think it's much easier to skive on Teams. No one has a clue if you're in another meeting with someone else (at least in the office, you might ask "how was your meeting with such and such" if that's where someone claimed they were. And very many people are physically logged into Teams calls but not actually listening/getting on with something else.

I have real issues with getting in touch with some colleagues at home. I've come to the conclusion that they are simply not there for a large part of the day. That's very obvious in an office setting.

Such early days
Everyone still finding their feet

Poor productivity etc will all come out in the wash eventually.
Give it a bit of time. Those with multiple jobs will start to flail.

@breadrollz

If you're paid for 8 hours work a day and finish it in 6, then you should be asking for 2 hours more of work, not swanning off.

That's BS

So if you employed someone to clean your house, paid them for 8 hours of cleaning and they did 6 hours and claimed it was done, you would think that was fine? You wouldn't think "hang on -there are some other tasks they could get on with if they've finished so early"? Or reduce the hours you paid them to 6?

I’d give them more tasks.
My responsibility to ensure there is sufficient work for them

So if you employed someone to clean your house, paid them for 8 hours of cleaning and they did 6 hours and claimed it was done, you would think that was fine? You wouldn't think "hang on -there are some other tasks they could get on with if they've finished so early"? Or reduce the hours you paid them to 6?

Sometimes my cleaner finishes 30 mins earlier & I don't have a problem with it. Other times she's flat out for 2 hours.

Depending on projects at work I can either be not that busy or working extra long days.

@Oftenithinkaboutit

I’d give them more tasks. My responsibility to ensure there is sufficient work for them

In this scenario, the cleaner would be spending the last two hours pretending to be busy while doing her side-hustle. So you wouldn't necessarily know unless she was honest about it.

My responsibility to have an idea of how long the tasks I’d given her should take to the standard I want, and make that clear to her.

So if you employed someone to clean your house, paid them for 8 hours of cleaning and they did 6 hours and claimed it was done, you would think that was fine? You wouldn't think "hang on -there are some other tasks they could get on with if they've finished so early"? Or reduce the hours you paid them to 6?

If the cleaner finished the contracted tasks to the appropriate standard in 6 hours, then they finished it in 6 hours. I don't get to decide to add extra tasks, outside of the contracted project, just because the time estimate differed.

Sometimes my cleaner DOES finish the work early. Good on them.

If the project is done, it's done.

Show me an employment contract that lists every task without exception and says nothing more is required above and beyond what is listed

@Oftenithinkaboutit

Show me an employment contract that lists every task without exception and says nothing more is required above and beyond what is listed

My cleaner's certainly specifies every task and no, I don't expect them to go beyond what is listed. That's not what I pay for.

My company allows for holding two jobs but there are non-competes in effect. We have several employees who do this.