Remote workers doing multiple jobs in the same time frame, getting away with it, underperforming.

[flashbac]

"Remote working has made it easier than ever for staff to moonlight. But how do they cope with clashing meetings and two bosses? And can the rewards be worth the lies?"

www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyle/2021/nov/16/its-the-biggest-open-secret-out-there-the-double-lives-of-white-collar-workers-with-two-jobs

Can you imagine having two computers on and being on two zoom meetings simultaneously? (Advice is to mute yourself and turn camera off.)

I think this if CF territory. I hope it doesn't become more mainstream. Remote working is a force for good. These CFs might ruin it for everyone.
And aibu to think the bullshittting aspect of this will be easier for men to get away with? Here is someone explaining how to get away with underperformance. Apparently if you keep sending your manager emails about how hard you are trying they will stay off your back:

overemployed.com/set-low-expectations-at-your-two-remote-jobs/

I think it really depends on level though — I used to temp during the summer when I was at university, and once was doing data entry work at a law firm.

It was really repetitive and I'm good at picking up patterns. I ended up being much faster than the other temps because I didn't need to keep looking which page I had to turn to next, or which box I was putting data in. I also write myself out a list of courts and addresses so I had them to hand.

If we'd each been given 100 sheets a day, then I'd have finished ages before other people. As it happened we just just took sheets from a central pile so I just did more — I certainly didn't feel guilty going for a drink or loo break though!

[quote Kitkat151]@ColinTheKoala why would you rent a desk...when your home is free?🤷‍♀️[/quote]
One of my staff members has a 1 bedroom flat and two children under 5 (London prices, hey?!). I can imagine there are many scenarios that renting a desk somewhere is preferable to WFH.

When lockdown had eased slightly, me and my DP were WFH and we had a workman due to come in for a few hours who is known for being chatty. I took myself off to the nearest hotel, bought a coffee and worked in their lounge for a while - much more productive than attempting to WFH with chaos going on around me.

Well the Bank with a 🐴 is onto it and collating proof. I don't know about the public sector though

* My cleaner's certainly specifies every task and no, I don't expect them to go beyond what is listed. *

So perfectly acceptable

However that is a self employed cleaning contract
No way would an employment contract specify that nothing expected over and above what’s listed

One of my staff members has a 1 bedroom flat and two children under 5 (London prices, hey?!). I can imagine there are many scenarios that renting a desk somewhere is preferable to WFH.

I have a similar problem one day a week, because my husband is at home with my baby and preschooler and me working in the dining room, which is a through route in our home, is an absolute nightmare for all concerned. I'm looking at solutions for when I go back to work from mat leave (in a few weeks) and am currently trying to get work to agree that I can go into the office for that day. Absolutely not on my list of solutions is me paying money to provide an office - frankly, fuck that.

Absolutely not on my list of solutions is me paying money to provide an office - frankly, fuck that.

DH and I have done this before but claim it back in taxes.

No way would an employment contract specify that nothing expected over and above what’s listed.

Mine doesn't, I've just checked - but I have a specialised role, I can't just jump in on another team's projects as I don't have the skill set or background to do what they do. My team's contracts have a general "catch all" statement about "any duties the manager sees fit to assign" but there's also a decent section about taking on additional employment where it is allowed and the rules are laid out -- adhering to the non-compete, maintaining acceptable standards, etc.

It’s the difference between been paid by the hour, which most people are, and been paid by the task.

Tbh very few people are paid by the task (do x job, produce y number of product etc…). People are paid by the hour as specified by their contract (eg you’re paid £10 per hour or £30k for a 35 hour week). This means they should be working their contractual hours and/or be given more work if they don’t have enough.

The cleaner case might fall into the ‘paid by the hour’ category in which case they ought to find more stuff to do if they can do it more quickly. Or ‘paid by the task’ in which case, once they finished cleaning they can stop. It depends on the agreement by the self employed cleaner and the customer.

@Oftenithinkaboutit. But why Payton rent when it’s free at home? I work to earn money...not to give it away 🤔

DH and I have done this before but claim it back in taxes.

Presumably you were self-employed?

@Hardbackwriter

DH and I have done this before but claim it back in taxes.

Presumably you were self-employed?

No, it was covered under the HMRC rules governing memberships.

It's a problem but not that common, I bigger issue is staff trying to care for children rather than working - children deserve proper care too. She's left of her own will but we had a lady who was on important zoom meetings and you realised she was driving or at the gates picking up her kids - she kicked up so much fuss when it was decided everyone back to the office last April, clients had complained.

In the past, every time I have agreed a price with a cleaner for the job rather than the hours, the job has got faster but much worse within a few weeks of them starting. We agreed 4 hours for the job, but by week 4 they can do it in 2, so I'm actually paying twice the normal rate for a really bad job.

@FlyingSoHigh

In the past, every time I have agreed a price with a cleaner for the job rather than the hours, the job has got faster but much worse within a few weeks of them starting. We agreed 4 hours for the job, but by week 4 they can do it in 2, so I'm actually paying twice the normal rate for a really bad job.

I do see what you're saying; surely though when underperforming comes into play that's addressed? If my cleaner finishes the 4 hour job in 2 but I come home and tasks aren't finished (it happens occasionally) then I have to speak to them about it, and they come back and complete the tasks to standard.

Same with employees, if they weren't performing to standard that would be addressed regardless of the status of any second job.

@Hardbackwriter

One of my staff members has a 1 bedroom flat and two children under 5 (London prices, hey?!). I can imagine there are many scenarios that renting a desk somewhere is preferable to WFH.

I have a similar problem one day a week, because my husband is at home with my baby and preschooler and me working in the dining room, which is a through route in our home, is an absolute nightmare for all concerned. I'm looking at solutions for when I go back to work from mat leave (in a few weeks) and am currently trying to get work to agree that I can go into the office for that day. Absolutely not on my list of solutions is me paying money to provide an office - frankly, fuck that.

Agreed - we would never expect anyone to do that and offered him a place back in the office, even though we weren't officially open. He turned us down in favour of a rented desk closer to home.

As an employer I was offering him a perfectly acceptable solution, which he declined, so I wasn't going to then offer to rent a desk for him somewhere else.

I hope your work agrees to your request - there's no way your young children are going to be able to differentiate between "home" mum and "work" mum, plus I'm sure they're too darned cute to ignore them all day long too!

@Nyxly

If someone is under performing, for whatever reason they need managing.

People get away with under performance because of poor management. Not always their immediate managers. Sometimes managers are doing their best but do t get support from above or told to leave it.

This also happens when people are in offices. Maybe not doing the 2 jobs. But definitely over looking under performances

Theres loads of tech out there, that makes it possible to monitor home working. I can see my teams on varying levels, from just seeing if they are 'green' on teams (which actually means very little) right down to their key strokes and everything inbetween. I also get a monthly, automated, report that outlines productivity, lost time etc.

I don't check the detail often. Only j cases where productivity is low for an extended period. Someone telling me they were working hard wouldn't cut it.

Companies can, if they are willing to handle this, be able to see everything and can stop this. For alot of them it's easier to turn a blind eye.

Bit honestly, my experience is the slackers at home were slackers in the office. Checking their side business, answering personal emails/messages. Or even disappearing for 40 mins to go to the loo and make a coffee 3 or 4 times a day.

The vast majority of people who worked well in the office, work well at home, in my experience. Especially the ones who donr want to go back.

100% this. The tools are out there, if managers aren’t using them then that’s on them. Completely agree also that the lazy/inept staff wfh were the same in the office. I have little sympathy for companies or managers complaining about this.

[quote Kitkat151]@Oftenithinkaboutit. But why Payton rent when it’s free at home? I work to earn money...not to give it away 🤔[/quote]
If you were commuting
How not
Saving money
I like having a separate space from home
Better productivity
Better “cut off” when I leave

I have a similar setup with Dh working from the dining room which is also a through route. It’s pretty difficult.

@gwenneh

* any duties the manager sees fit to assign" *

Bingo

@Oftenithinkaboutit. I work 2 miles from home....so no real commute costs...I haven’t been in the office since lockdown 1 .....for me renting a desk would mean I was losing money....but I can see that some people would have longer ( more expensive) commutes...even so...I would still WFH ....I like to keep hold of my pennies

If someone is under performing, for whatever reason they need managing

Spot on, Nyxly; however the minority pisstakers don't often appreciate being managed, any more than they appreciate the kind of monitoring you mentioned. As we see on here all the time, any attempt to do so brings instant screams of "Call ACAS / sign off sick / take no sh1t off the bast*s" and so on

Flexible working's an excellent thing and can work very well, but it's worth remembering that the problems which arise when it doesn't can be considerable

[quote Kitkat151]@Oftenithinkaboutit. I work 2 miles from home....so no real commute costs...I haven’t been in the office since lockdown 1 .....for me renting a desk would mean I was losing money....but I can see that some people would have longer ( more expensive) commutes...even so...I would still WFH ....I like to keep hold of my pennies[/quote]
When your yearly train pass was £5.5k
Renting an office is peanuts.
I love the walk there and back
And it’s a lovely cozy nook with superb printing facilities and full IT support. £22 a day! I only do for 3 days a week. 2 at home. Lovely

Sorry, that should have read the minority of pisstakers ...

What would you do in an office?

Chat with colleagues, field many spurious enquiries from people who could actually just go look it up for themselves. Answer the reception phone because no other fucker does it when the receptionist is away from her desk. Collect the printing from the printer right next to me rather than traipsing up 4 flights of stairs to the attic where it is in the office. Wait for my computer to stop sticking. And again, and again. I easily save time doing tasks because I have better IT and software on my home PC than I do I’m the office. Even my kettle boils faster and my kitchen is closer so making a cup of tea takes two minutes in the house rather than ten in the office.

@Puzzledandpissedoff

If someone is under performing, for whatever reason they need managing

Spot on, Nyxly; however the minority pisstakers don't often appreciate being managed, any more than they appreciate the kind of monitoring you mentioned. As we see on here all the time, any attempt to do so brings instant screams of "Call ACAS / sign off sick / take no sh1t off the bast*s" and so on

Flexible working's an excellent thing and can work very well, but it's worth remembering that the problems which arise when it doesn't can be considerable

I don't think they are anymore considerable than those in the office. People call acas, go off sick in protest etc while in the office. If they are a pisstaker and it's their tactic, nothing will change that.

The heavy monitoring was there before we went home, because the senior team work all over. I would love to see someone try and challenge it.

As I said, I rarely use it. Because there's no need. Work is completed, that's all I really worry about. Although to be fair on my teams pisstakers are picked up and dealt with quickly, because I don't have time for the messing about. The managers of the teams have no desire to deal with it long term either.

This was the point. The teams that failed wfh, did so because they were poorly managed before, then poorly managed wfh and still poorly managed and under performing now they are back in the office.

Non of the issues are wfh specific. Which is actually helping the case for more wfh.

Here’s another plus. Client called a meeting with lawyers at 4.30. Supposed to be half an hour. Finished at 6pm. WFH, I was able to focus on the meeting entirely, knowing I just had to go through to the kitchen for my dinner, rather than thinking “bloody hell, 6pm, I still have an 80 minute commute, won’t be home til 7.20, my dinner will be ruined, must text my husband to let him know I’m running late or he will worry, and ask him to do the maths revision I promised to do with my daughter after tea, I hope he washed her swimming costume for tomorrow, otherwise it won’t be dry for tomorrow…….”