to boycott products made in China and India?

[Lowkeyloopy]

So angry that they have watered down an agreement aimed at saving the planet that my (shortly to be born) child will be living in.

Yes people will say it’s unfair that the more developed economies have enjoyed all the benefits of burning fossil fuels and are now dictating that other countries should stop. Well, tough. We are where we are and the world is on fire.

I’m also sick and tired of people saying that individuals can’t make a difference, AND of the government congratulating itself on bringing down our own carbon emissions. We don’t MAKE anything in this country - we ship it in from other countries. If we all stopped buying crap we don’t need that is manufactured on the cheap in those countries, we could actually help ensure those countries cut their carbon emissions and genuinely bring down our own individual carbon footprints.

So I guess I’m angry at China and India for watering down the COP agreement, but I’m angry at us for creating the circumstances that facilitates the attitude that made them do that.

So, I’ll now be even more consciously checking where my products are from and will not be buying anything made in China or India.

Who’s with me? (YANBU)

Who’s not? And why, out of interest? (YABU)

Happy Sunday all…!

[quote icedcoffees]**@saveourtrees but not everyone lives in areas where charity shops are in abundance, and they're also not the most convenient places to shop at either.

It's not like you can go in and they have a full range of clothes in all sizes to pick from. It's complete pot-luck whether they'll have what you need, in your size, in the right colour/fabric/fit...

Again, technology wise, it's pot luck. The fridge/freezer needs to be the right size to fit in your kitchen...but you also need a car or van to get it delivered to your house, you need to pay someone to get rid of the old one, and if it's (for example) a dishwasher you're buying, someone needs to come and install it properly etc.

It's often cheaper and more convenient to buy new. For example, our local white goods store will deliver goods within the hour, get rid of your old items AND install it for you, and it's all included in the price. No charity shop I know of will do all that for you.

It's the same with MarketPlace etc - you have to time it right, or you won't find what you need. You're also trusting the word of a complete stranger that the item is as described and you have no comeback if it goes wrong the next day, leaving you without what you need and without your money.

Buying second hand DOES have benefits but it's not the flawless system you seem to make it out to be.[/quote]
Both @icedcoffees and @saveourtrees make good points. However where there is demand the service will grow. A community spirit is so important to make any of this work. My view is that is what will ultimately save us (if we are to be saved) because we will all have to learn to live with less which will make us more dependent on each other as people, as equals.

The reason we all buy from China and India is because its cheap. I read an article before that said if we had to make iPhone over here it would add on thousands of pounds to the products. To suggest you can try and boycott is fine, but I think you'd be surprised how much you would have to give up and most people could afford it.

@MareofBeasttown

If you really want to use the Climate Change Performance Index, then you can blame Australia, which is at the bottom. I never see anyone starting a thread saying Australians deserve wild fires. Why is that, I wonder?

They speak English and say mate alot.

[quote Daftasabroom]@Tealightsandd it's the average 99% who are responsible for the majority of emissions. Sadly, blaming climate change on the mega rich is completely misguided.[/quote]
www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/climate-crisis-billionaires-cop26_uk_61603d1ce4b06a986bcebc08

Oxfam International found the richest 1% of the global population accelerated climate change far more than everyone else.

@PlanDeRaccordement

Charity shops here won’t sell large electric appliances like fridges, freezers, dishwashers, washers, dryers because of liability, health and safety.

After all wasn’t it a second hand fridge that started the Grenfell fire?

British Heart Foundation used to. Perhaps things have changed recently?

All very well, but in the country I live in if I bought nothing made in China (especially) or India I would be buying almost nothing at all. It's not about tat either, the expensive goods are made there as well. It's just not that simple.

My car was made in the UK. My clothes are made in the UK ( but expensive) I buy locally grown food in season. Britain makes a lot we just need to buy less and buy British.

Wow, are you really that clueless? Good on you for doing your bit, but many people are not in the fortunate position of being able to afford to buy locally made products (I do agree with you about buying food in season). As for your other comments about not caring about flooding in India - words fail me.

Your thinking is simplistic - for all the reasons stated above.

British Heart Foundation used to. Perhaps things have changed recently?

Not everyone lives near a BHF shop, though.

Our nearest is a 45 minute drive away, so useless unless you own a car or van. The next closest after that is in the next county

No Chinese manufacturing then I don’t have a job. It won’t just affect the Chinese economy and jobs but uk based staff as well.

You do realise that carbon emissions per capita/ person in the UK is more than double that of India. And carbon emissions per capita/person is more than double that of China. On environmental grounds it would be far better surely to boycott products made in the UK than India. And it would be a better choice boycotting products made in the US than China. Also China and India have far poorer populations than either the UK or US,. So preferable on moral grounds to boycott products from UK and US than jeopardise the living standards of people in two countries, where some of the world's poorest populations live. Also UK and US historically contributed far more to global warming than India and China ever did! So yes maybe we should boycott products but you're picking the wrong countries. UK and US rather than India and China surely.

Oops meant to say ..carbon emissions per capita/person in US is more than double that of China

www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/nov/14/india-criticised-over-coal-at-cop26-but-real-villain-was-climate-injustice

Also whoever said their car was made in the UK, your car was not made in the UK. It might have been assembled in the UK (even that's rarer), but a lot of its components will have come from somewhere else, East Asia most likely!

@icedcoffees

British Heart Foundation used to. Perhaps things have changed recently?

Not everyone lives near a BHF shop, though.

Our nearest is a 45 minute drive away, so useless unless you own a car or van. The next closest after that is in the next county

Yes it's a real shame there aren't more. Such a good cause too.

It would be good if more places were able to sell safety checked second hand electricals.

There are billionaires in both India and China. Yes a lot of poverty too but the (moral) answer isn't making the poor everywhere else suffer more.

Not everyone in the UK or the US is doing ok (and historically many have suffered enormous poverty). I'm sure the occupants of America's tent cities and the people literally dying outside the Houses of Parliament in the UK wouldn't feel rich.

The simple fact is that, as stated in the article I linked upthread, we all have to do our bit but for any real change it's down to the international 1%.

@Appleandoranges

You do realise that carbon emissions per capita/ person in the UK is more than double that of India. And carbon emissions per capita/person is more than double that of China. On environmental grounds it would be far better surely to boycott products made in the UK than India. And it would be a better choice boycotting products made in the US than China. Also China and India have far poorer populations than either the UK or US,. So preferable on moral grounds to boycott products from UK and US than jeopardise the living standards of people in two countries, where some of the world's poorest populations live. Also UK and US historically contributed far more to global warming than India and China ever did! So yes maybe we should boycott products but you're picking the wrong countries. UK and US rather than India and China surely.

Please stop being logical. We must hate foreigners.

It would be good if more places were able to sell safety checked second hand electricals.

Definitely. We recently got rid of a TV that we got third hand about eight years ago! Unfortunately, it broke and the cost of a repair would have been more than the TV was worth, so we replaced it instead.

No Chinese manufacturing then I don’t have a job. It won’t just affect the Chinese economy and jobs but uk based staff as well.

Exactly. I live in NZ and China is our biggest trading partner, we can't just stop buying from them as everyone would be affected. Some people have good intentions but no clue about how things work in the real world.

China is doing a lot internally to combat pollution, consumerism is less of an issue there than in UK.

Individually we can for example buy less "stuff", buy second hand, use our cars less , its too easy to blame the Chinese.

@Appleandoranges
carbon emissions per capita/person is more than double that of China.

Er no it’s not. China is at 7.38 tons per capita, whereas U.K. is at 5.55 tons per capita.
www.worldometers.info/co2-emissions/co2-emissions-per-capita/

@Appleandoranges
Also UK and US historically contributed far more to global warming than India and China ever did!

You’re only half right. The #1 cumulative contribution from 1750 to 2020 of CO2 emissions is the USA at 417bn tonnes, but #2 is China at 236 bn tonnes. Russia is #3 with 115bn tonnes. Then comes Germany with 93 bn tonnes. U.K. is at 78bn tonnes as are Japan at 66bn tonnes and India at 54bn tonnes.

So technically China has contributed triple what the UK has towards global warming....the USA is by far the worst though.
ourworldindata.org/contributed-most-global-co2

@PlanDeRaccordement thanks for posting that link. It clearly shows US carbon emissions per capita are more than twice that of China. And UK carbon emissions per capita are more than twice that of India. So far better to buy Indian than buy British, going by OP's argument! And far better to buy Chinese goods than US goods. I doubt China has contributed triple what the UK has contributed to global warming if you go by what it has contributed by person. It has about 70 times the size of population than the UK! It's a nonsense to say India/China contribute much more to global warming than the UK. Of course they do. They have huge populations. Also UK was the first country to industrialise so out of all countries it is the probably most responsible for the state of global warming. It is more carbon efficient than China now and produces less per person but that change has only happened in the last 10-20 years. Also it is a far far richer country than China per person so of course its population is better equipped to bear the brunt of climate change.

Good luck with that OP. You will not be able to, as almost every aspect of our day-to-day life will incorporate stuff produced there.

Also, it is highly hypocritical to take this stance given the 'First World's Advantage on the back of these countries and all our high living standards attained over decades of avid fuel consumption and damage to the environment. You lack perspective and insight.

@Babdoc

I’m no lover of the totalitarian Chinese government, but you could argue that, with their one child policy, they have done more than any other country to reduce carbon footprint. Every child they prevented being conceived represents a saving of 54 tons CO2 equivalent.

@Babdoc - China now has a three-child policy, announced in May 2021. Their universal two-child policy was announced in October 2015, replacing their one-child policy.

Yeah, sod all those Indian and Chinese bastards that make a living and feed their kids by making the things that we buy.