to boycott products made in China and India?

[Lowkeyloopy]

So angry that they have watered down an agreement aimed at saving the planet that my (shortly to be born) child will be living in.

Yes people will say it’s unfair that the more developed economies have enjoyed all the benefits of burning fossil fuels and are now dictating that other countries should stop. Well, tough. We are where we are and the world is on fire.

I’m also sick and tired of people saying that individuals can’t make a difference, AND of the government congratulating itself on bringing down our own carbon emissions. We don’t MAKE anything in this country - we ship it in from other countries. If we all stopped buying crap we don’t need that is manufactured on the cheap in those countries, we could actually help ensure those countries cut their carbon emissions and genuinely bring down our own individual carbon footprints.

So I guess I’m angry at China and India for watering down the COP agreement, but I’m angry at us for creating the circumstances that facilitates the attitude that made them do that.

So, I’ll now be even more consciously checking where my products are from and will not be buying anything made in China or India.

Who’s with me? (YANBU)

Who’s not? And why, out of interest? (YABU)

Happy Sunday all…!

@MareofBeasttown exactly my point..India's emissions are 7 times lower than the US despite the large population. I read that per person China and India emit less than developed countries so it is still the western world that needs to make big changes. A poor person burning some coal but having no gas or electricity or car is not the problem!

@Lowkeyloopy

So angry that they have watered down an agreement aimed at saving the planet that my (shortly to be born) child will be living in.

Yes people will say it’s unfair that the more developed economies have enjoyed all the benefits of burning fossil fuels and are now dictating that other countries should stop. Well, tough. We are where we are and the world is on fire.

I’m also sick and tired of people saying that individuals can’t make a difference, AND of the government congratulating itself on bringing down our own carbon emissions. We don’t MAKE anything in this country - we ship it in from other countries. If we all stopped buying crap we don’t need that is manufactured on the cheap in those countries, we could actually help ensure those countries cut their carbon emissions and genuinely bring down our own individual carbon footprints.

So I guess I’m angry at China and India for watering down the COP agreement, but I’m angry at us for creating the circumstances that facilitates the attitude that made them do that.

So, I’ll now be even more consciously checking where my products are from and will not be buying anything made in China or India.

Who’s with me? (YANBU)

Who’s not? And why, out of interest? (YABU)

Happy Sunday all…!

You can, just about, filter stuff made from China but not India. Every single electronic product, dye, generic medicine cloth, has a supply or patent chain that routes back to India. And yes it was always going to be a shit show when the biggest plastic polluter on earth & the country that invented fossil fuel useage & the one who stuck a patent on renewable energy and charges India and China to use it (the UK) began to tell the countries it formally colonized what to do.

I wonder what the reaction would be on MN if I argued that I don't care if one of Boris Johnson's numerous children or Jacob Rees-Mogg's or Jamie Oliver's or Sophie Ellis-Bextor's.....or any of those many rich white families with over 3 children and massive carbon footprints drowned. Because, you know, they have made their bed and must lie in it.

[quote user1493222657]@MareofBeasttown exactly my point..India's emissions are 7 times lower than the US despite the large population. I read that per person China and India emit less than developed countries so it is still the western world that needs to make big changes. A poor person burning some coal but having no gas or electricity or car is not the problem![/quote]
Exactly

@Mouseonmychair

Sorry cross post so it looks like we need stronger immigration controls. Lol that will drive some Mumsneters wild.

Yes. Because immigration controls are seen as inherently racist. But other island/small nations have implemented very strict controls because they are similarly overpopulated. Singapore, Japan, Switzerland, Galápagos Islands, etc.

There’s nothing wrong with immigration controls when a place is overpopulated, migrants deserve to emigrate to countries that have the space and resources for everyone to live well.

[quote user1493222657]@MareofBeasttown exactly my point..India's emissions are 7 times lower than the US despite the large population. I read that per person China and India emit less than developed countries so it is still the western world that needs to make big changes. A poor person burning some coal but having no gas or electricity or car is not the problem![/quote]
Very well said.

@Babdoc

I’m no lover of the totalitarian Chinese government, but you could argue that, with their one child policy, they have done more than any other country to reduce carbon footprint. Every child they prevented being conceived represents a saving of 54 tons CO2 equivalent.

The one child policy has long gone so I guess that means their carbon emissions are going to increase.

And yes it was always going to be a shit show when the biggest plastic polluter on earth & the country that invented fossil fuel useage & the one who stuck a patent on renewable energy and charges India and China to use it (the UK) began to tell the countries it formally colonized what to do.

What are you on about? The biggest plastic polluter on Earth is China, followed by USA. The first fossil fuel used was coal. Coal burned for heat. And the first people who burned coal were the Ancient Chinese around 2,000 BC. The earliest evidence of coal burning in the UK was in Wales a thousand years later. The patents for renewable energy are multinational, but China dominates with the most patents filed since 2000 to today. The U.K. also never colonised China....

@Mouseonmychair probably the most entitled post I've ever seen. Congratulations.

Wow, this has kicked off some debate! I’m keen to talk about some of the productive comments and will come back online later to read and respond properly (I’m out and about atm), but just a few initial thoughts.

Totally agree that reducing consumption generally is the way forward, and is what I personally am trying to do. All my clothes are second hand off Vinted (as are my future baby’s), pram and other bits for the baby are secondhand - nothing I’ve got so far is new. If I need to buy new (eg car seat) I will do my research and be as conscientious as I can be in my choices. If my car seat has to be from China for example (and I hope it doesn’t but let’s see!) that’s not a reason to say I was stupid to even try reducing consumption and increase buying locally at all, I would hope?

I also don’t eat meat anymore and like a pp, I use oddbox for fruit & veg. I’m also militant about recycling and not turning the heating on until I really need to!

To clarify for some people, and as others have pointed out - by “boycott”, I do not mean “angrily throw my existing products from China in the bin”. That’s as dim as realising all your existing products are plastic and chucking them out! The idea is longevity and sustainability, not making a silly political point. So, yes, I am typing this on an iPhone because this issue wasn’t front and centre of my thinking when I bought it a couple of years ago. But, just like my previous iPhone, I will use it for as long as I possibly can, then recycle it and make a more ethical choice next time around.

I’d like to think this is all about learning as we go and doing whatever we can, when we can, from now on, rather than criticising people for not being 100% alive to this issue whenever they bought their phones, cars previously etc.

As for the people suggesting I shouldn’t have a child if I care about the environment… this is all about us trying to find a way for humans to continue to live on this planet in a way that doesn’t need to destroy the planet. I could also stop eating or leaving the house (or owning a house at all) but I imagine you’d think that’s ridiculous and not exactly conducive to a happy existence..! Human life in itself is not incompatible with saving the planet - we survived for hundreds of thousands of years without destroying it and we now have the technology and the expertise and the education to help us make choices that will save it and continue to have full and happy lives.

It would be so wonderful if we could all be positive and put our heads together collectively to help each other in that goal, acknowledging the challenges in a constructive way, rather throwing up our hands and accepting the status quo.

@Tealightsandd

A report last week noted that the international - global - 1% are responsible for the majority of emissions.

It's not about individual countries.

And as it happens both China and India have taken world leading measures to tackle the biggest issue relating to climate change and environmental damage - human overpopulation.

China's now abandoned one child policy was much criticised by other countries.

Now a region in India is looking at a similar measure. Incentives will be offered to have smaller families.

Both countries have the right idea. Instead of hurting the poor further by making resources too expensive (and therefore drastically reducing quality of life and standard of living), they looked at the root cause. Reducing demand for those resources through education on and access to birth control.

Luckily we have a visionary leader who is well aware of the need for population control.

www.boris-johnson.com/2007/10/25/global-population-control/

@jgw1 That speech has aged so badly. Do as I say, not as I do.

@Tealightsandd
And as it happens both China and India have taken world leading measures to tackle the biggest issue relating to climate change and environmental damage - human overpopulation.

Don’t you mean ‘world following measures’? Rest of developed world has had birth rates below zero growth for decades.......so China and India are quite literally following their lead?? Not leading?

[quote MareofBeasttown]@jgw1 That speech has aged so badly. Do as I say, not as I do.[/quote]
We would be fine if we all limited ourselves to having the 7 or 8 children the Prime Minister has.

He and the Leader of the House are models for us all to follow in this regard.

What’s your ethical phone going to be?

@Theluggage15

What’s your ethical phone going to be?

My phone is completely ethical.

Yes at least China had a one child policy. A shame India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, and a large number of African countries have not/ will not be so responsible.

Which is why illegal immigrants are NOT being or going to be returned, by any government despite the talk

Yes, yabu and hypocritical. Having a child in a developed country is about the worst thing an individual can do to the environment.

I also worry about the environment and the future of my kids and I would have liked a tighter agreement but I don't think it's fair to single out India and China who have gone further than expected.

@HumunaHey

I understand the whole 'have less children' idea but can't understand the 'have no children' idea. We'd die out as a species and the last few living would have as grim a life as those experiencing the future effects of climate change.

I'm skimming the thread so perhaps might have missed it but I haven't seen anyone suggest no children? However, actually that is the only real way to save the environment.

I'm not necessarily advocating it but I don't agree with you that the natural dying out of the human race would have to be grim (or at least any more grim than future effects of climate change).

Robot care in the later years and a Dignitas type end - which is a very peaceful and painless way to go.

But anyway let's face facts that most of us don't want that. So all we can do is take mitigating measures. Which includess smaller families. That would help to also ensure everyone has a reasonable standard of living wrt access to essential resources including housing, fuel, and food.

Haha who knows what kind of “ethical” phones might be available in a few years time.. this is one option I need to research - www.fairphone.com/en/

‘Fairphones’ are made in China

Typical first world response imo.

@IsleofRum

Which is why illegal immigrants are NOT being or going to be returned, by any government despite the talk

Until we move to a circular economic model, we 'need' immigration.

@IsleofRum all my Pakistani relatives have small families FYI & birth control is certainly available - nb some people "white ethnic British" have large families regardless of availability of birth control being freely available - Pakistan is like USA a country of areas similar to states where the lifestyle varies considerably -as well as city versus rural versus educated & not. Don't make sweeping comments - it comes across as something that may say more about your thought process than what is happening
By the way =Rare Earth minerals (I think this includes Lithium which is essential in batteries & therefore essential in green energy) are mostly controlled by China - we cannot do without it
Re your recycling - if everybody bought good quality second hand stuff there wouldn't be enough for everybody & the prices would (& has) gone up so poorer people would be restricted to poorer quality stuff that is NOT recycled & would be imported. Goods produced in UK are more expensive because they have parts that need to be imported & the costs of making them, paying staff, paying for accommodation & internal transport & all of the taxes are so much higher & by the way to the up comment on migrants - we need skilled workers & unskilled workers who do unpopular dirty or poorly paid work that locals won't or cannot do