to boycott products made in China and India?

[Lowkeyloopy]

So angry that they have watered down an agreement aimed at saving the planet that my (shortly to be born) child will be living in.

Yes people will say it’s unfair that the more developed economies have enjoyed all the benefits of burning fossil fuels and are now dictating that other countries should stop. Well, tough. We are where we are and the world is on fire.

I’m also sick and tired of people saying that individuals can’t make a difference, AND of the government congratulating itself on bringing down our own carbon emissions. We don’t MAKE anything in this country - we ship it in from other countries. If we all stopped buying crap we don’t need that is manufactured on the cheap in those countries, we could actually help ensure those countries cut their carbon emissions and genuinely bring down our own individual carbon footprints.

So I guess I’m angry at China and India for watering down the COP agreement, but I’m angry at us for creating the circumstances that facilitates the attitude that made them do that.

So, I’ll now be even more consciously checking where my products are from and will not be buying anything made in China or India.

Who’s with me? (YANBU)

Who’s not? And why, out of interest? (YABU)

Happy Sunday all…!

[quote Lowkeyloopy]Haha who knows what kind of “ethical” phones might be available in a few years time.. this is one option I need to research - www.fairphone.com/en/[/quote]
Ethical phones have been available for almost the entirety of human history, it has only been possible to have an unethical phone for the past 20-30 years.

not has - have

[quote Lowkeyloopy]Haha who knows what kind of “ethical” phones might be available in a few years time.. this is one option I need to research - www.fairphone.com/en/[/quote]
They're made in China.

@icedcoffees V good point!!!!!

The UK doesn't have a problem there because procreation levels are lower than what's needed to sustain or grow population levels.

Growing population levels is an unneeded ponzi scheme. Great for exploitation of cheap labour but shit for the actual cheap labour (and even worse for the vulnerable eg the disabled).

The planet cannot sustain an increasing human population. Some people might be unconcerned about this, but I'm assuming those in this thread do care since it's a discussion about climate change.

Large families means more people competing for ever scarcer resources. Robots will be doing more and more of the jobs - and an increased birth rate will see increasing numbers unemployed, hungry, homeless, and destitute.

We can see on this thread that an ever increasing population leads to ideals of eugenics - including talk of people living 'too long'.

And, if people do want to follow the eugenics path then we need to stop castigating people for participating in potentially life shortening activities - Bad For You things like junk food, drugs, and smoking.

@Seafog

Your actions matter, and so do your spending habits. Fast fashion, cheap toys, and over packaging is something we can all avoid. Boycotting from countries that have poor environmental or human rights issues is a good idea, you may not be able to avoid it all , but some is better than none.

^^This. No point getting all virtuous about the UK cutting carbon if we just outsource our manufacturing (and therefore emissions) to other countries.

It doesn't matter anyway. Humankind is but a speck on the earth's existence.

@Theluggage15

‘Fairphones’ are made in China

D’oh! Will have to keep researching then - weigh up options when it comes round to buying a new phone in a few years time. As I say, it’s a process and we can’t let perfection be the enemy of good, but I will make the best choices I can with the info available!

No point getting all virtuous about the UK cutting carbon if we just outsource our manufacturing (and therefore emissions) to other countries.

I think emissions belong to the country they occur in, regardless of where the products they facilitate end up. The alternative view would make accurate accounts impossible.

For this view to make sense, all countries have to co-operate on emissions control. That may seem difficult, but if it doesn't happen, we're fucked anyway, no matter what we do.

If emissions were being tackled properly, with countries buying rights from a fixed global pool, then it wouldn't matter that China was making everything, as the cost of buying the rights would be built into the price of stuff they sold to the rest of the world, so the rest of the world would be indirectly paying for the negative externalities of their own consumption.

No point getting all virtuous about the UK cutting carbon if we just outsource our manufacturing (and therefore emissions) to other countries.

You kind of have to not be a manufacturing centre due to lack of land because whatever land isn’t urbanised, is being used for agriculture which has its own carbon footprint. And manufacturing is no more carbon dense than agriculture. So even if the UK were doing all it’s own manufacturing, it would then need to outsource all it’s agriculture.

Even so! Urban areas....they clock up over 10% of carbon emissions for power and heat and for a densely populated country, the U.K. had done exceedingly well at reducing its carbon foot print. It has every right to “feel virtuous”. It’s 4th place in the world according to the Climate Change Performance Index which since 2005 has measured the progress of 57 countries against carbon neutral targets to fight climate change.

If you really want to use the Climate Change Performance Index, then you can blame Australia, which is at the bottom. I never see anyone starting a thread saying Australians deserve wild fires. Why is that, I wonder?

Well I'd hope nobody would say that. What have the kangaroos, koalas, and other wildlife done to deserve wildfires? Nowhere deserves them.

The international 1% are responsible for the most emissions - by quite some way. Eg. Using their private jets to travel across the world between their multiple properties.

@CorrBlimeyGG

Even if you can find (and afford) goods that were not produced in these countries, you can bet that components of said goods were.

The reality is that only the most wealthy can afford to truly boycott China etc.

This is absolutely not true at all. If you buy secondhand (which is becoming increasingly easy with all of the secondhand online marketplaces) you completely absolve yourself of any responsibility if where your things come from. Virtually every book on my shelf is secondhand, almost all of my children's toys, most of our clothes, only really shoes that we buy new now and that pisses me off to high heaven! Even phones and TV and technology. Fridges, freezers... my washing machine is secondhand, and its lasted me longer than my brand new oven 6 years ago. So many house clearances and charity shops, Facebook marketplace, shpock, vinted, eBay, depop.... And everything goes back to the charity shop when we are done. It has saved us so much money and so much guilt.

Now the extra money I saved from buying hand can go toward the more expensive loose red peppers and the porridge oats in paper bags etc.

I think people think Made in China= cheap, Made in England = expensive. We need more people buying secondhand.

@Tealightsandd it's the average 99% who are responsible for the majority of emissions. Sadly, blaming climate change on the mega rich is completely misguided.

If you want to limit the use of fossil fuels stop buying 'organic' kind etc shampoo, shower gel, washing powders and washing up liquids that contain
Lauryl ether sulphate
Laureth sulphate etc
Why?
They're delivered in huge barrels to Unilever at Port Sunlight straight from the Shell refinery at Stanlow.
Soap whether liquid or solid is made from an alkali and a triglyceride like olive oil. Hard soaps use NaOH, softer ones KOH.
40 years ago, sulphates were used in just washing powders, now they're in absolutely everything. Even the brand Savon de Marseille uses them, as does Marseillaise the French brand of shower gels and bubble baths. They're in Woolite which used to be soap-based and even in some prescription shampoos for dry scalp. I've even seen shower gels with aloe vera that are labelled as 'kind' which contain them.
They cause blisters on your fingers when you take the cup out of the box and, if you wash you hair in the shower can cause pustular psoriasis around the base of your feet, or so a chiropodist told me.
I don't like huge gas-guzzling cars, but at the same time it's no good complaining about fossil fuels for cars if we're using kgs of sulphates a week instead of soap.

It is possible but difficult. Some things like electronics are always made in china. But for a lot of everyday household items, clothing, furniture etc there are alternatives. Look for UK companies, or at least EU. I have actively been trying to avoid buying from China where possible. For example, i never knew so many greetings cards (just paper?!) are made in China! So now I check on the back of the card for where it was made and only buy cards made in the UK. There is no need to make birthday cards in China when they can be made here.

@newtb
I agree completely about sulphates and SLS...have not used any products with them for over thirty years now. However, true organic shampoos/soaps do not have them. Most nonorganic shampoos, shower gels, toothpastes etc do usually have sulphates in them. Just wanted to say whether the label says organic or not, you still have to check it to be sure no sulphates.

@saveourtrees but not everyone lives in areas where charity shops are in abundance, and they're also not the most convenient places to shop at either.

It's not like you can go in and they have a full range of clothes in all sizes to pick from. It's complete pot-luck whether they'll have what you need, in your size, in the right colour/fabric/fit...

Again, technology wise, it's pot luck. The fridge/freezer needs to be the right size to fit in your kitchen...but you also need a car or van to get it delivered to your house, you need to pay someone to get rid of the old one, and if it's (for example) a dishwasher you're buying, someone needs to come and install it properly etc.

It's often cheaper and more convenient to buy new. For example, our local white goods store will deliver goods within the hour, get rid of your old items AND install it for you, and it's all included in the price. No charity shop I know of will do all that for you.

It's the same with MarketPlace etc - you have to time it right, or you won't find what you need. You're also trusting the word of a complete stranger that the item is as described and you have no comeback if it goes wrong the next day, leaving you without what you need and without your money.

Buying second hand DOES have benefits but it's not the flawless system you seem to make it out to be.

Blaming developing countries for not controlling emissions is hypocritical.
The wealth and comfort you live in today is due to western countries basically plundering riches from them for centuries. Think about the UK occupying India, the "white man burden" and all this crap...Now all you have to say is '''tough luck" ?! You want to essentially shaft them once again? This hypocrisy is compounded by the fact that production is now shifted to developing nations - their economy is more traditional fuel dependent as a result.
Since western countries are absolutely and completely dependent on their produce (your heroic individual boycott non-withstanding) these countries can now dictate their terms - which basically mean that western countries will need to pay more for this produce if they want to diminish the use of fossil fuels - and that your personal life will get a bit more "tough" due to the golden age of dirt cheap Chinese and Indian goods passing. Which is only fair.

Charity shops here won’t sell large electric appliances like fridges, freezers, dishwashers, washers, dryers because of liability, health and safety.

After all wasn’t it a second hand fridge that started the Grenfell fire?

I'm with you. I already try to boycott China because of their treatment of the Uighurs.
www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-55794071

I wish you luck, OP, but unless you're meaning you're simply going to boycott products LABELLED as made in China/India, you're on a hiding to nothing.

The vast majority of FMCGs have at least some raw materials or components originating in China/India.

Don't we import huge amounts of medicines from China and India? I'd want to check that list before I got too high up on my horse about that one.

Blaming developing countries for not controlling emissions is hypocritical. The wealth and comfort you live in today is due to western countries basically plundering riches from them for centuries.

🙄 The USA and China arent a “developing country”

Yeah, India you might have a point, but even then the British occupation lasted less than a century....there was no “plundering of riches for centuries”

Peak Mumsnet!

OP : I'm going to boycott Made in China and buy local.

Mumsnet: You can't do that because of phones, cars. Oh and how dare you even think of doing that when you have the audacity to have a child!

Every time someone says they are doing something positive, they are swamped by a sea of whataboutery! What about phones? What about China? What about rich people?

Well done and good luck OP!