No 2 minutes silence at gym. AIBU

[Mushypeasandchipstogo]

I went to my gym today for a class in the swimming pool. I had totally expected the class to finish just before 11am so that those who wanted to could observe the two minutes silence. By 10.55am it was apparent that this was not going to happen so I just took myself out of the pool and sat in the changing room by myself.
So as to not drip feed, I am from a Forces Family and the wrong side of 50! I found this totally disrespectful of the instructor. He could have, at the very least, mentioned that he had intended to not stop before the class. AIBU to be upset by this?

@CSJobseeker
Yes, I agree. The British actions up to WW2 were not black and white either. But for the sake of simplicity…

Agree with others that a week or so of events would be much more meaningful and respectful, as well as helping to maximise the chance of us never having to relive those horrors.

When I was 15, I went on a school trip to Belgium, visited Ypres, Langemark cemetery, the Menin gate. Witnessed the Last Post ceremony. All of that had more of an impact on me than any of the 2 minute silences I'd participated in until then.

Visiting Auschwitz was another moment that changed my life and my perspective forever.

The point that many of us are making is that there's more than one way to show respect. Being told that we should be ashamed of ourselves is hindering progress and discussion about how best to show respect, by learning and working to ensure that these events never happen again.

@Lemonsyellow

Germany formally surrender in May 1945 (either on the 7th or 9th, depending on which you consider to be the official act of surrender). The surrender of Japan was formalised on 2 Sept 1945.

What happened in 1945 is not relevant to Armistice Day, though.

As I have explained above, Germany did formally surrender after WW1 too. You are correct that Armistice Day was not the formal surrender. However, you also said that we did not win WW1. That is incorrect. For what it's worth, we did.

@MissLucyEyelesbarrow
OK, I take that back about Britain not eventually being on the winning side in WW1, because there was a later formal surrender by Germany.

@CSJobseeker

WW2 is different. We were trying to defeat an evil regime, and we were ultimately on the winning side. There’s a place for some patriotism there, if you wish.

Even in WWII, there were many members of our government and aristocracy who supported Hitler and believed we should be on Germany's side (the former King Edward VIII among them). If history had panned out slightly differently, the UK could have been fighting on the side of the fascists.

I personally think that unquestioning belief in one's country, unquestioning belief that your government's causes are good ones etc. is always a bad thing. If that makes me unpatriotic, so be it. I'm happy to wear that label.

Agree. The irony is that it is the uncritical flag-wavers, who think that questioning the military is unpatriotic, who would have been prime fodder for fascism. Who do you think was buying the Daily Mail when it was proclaiming 'Hurrah for the Blackshirts'?

It's British scepticism and distrust of ideologies that has protected our freedom, not the self-aggrandising patriots.

@Cosmois

When can we stop? 200 years after? 300 years after? Obviously at some point people will stop. For some of us that is now. It will faze our over time. That is just a fact. My children have no idea about it, I don't think it is something they do at school? They have never mentioned it and noone at their school seems to wear a poppy? I think it is presumed people will mark it on the Sunday if they want to.

This. Nobody is "desperately eradicating" it. It's just fading away with time. That's completely natural and unavoidable. Some people think it's too soon, others don't.

I would love to know how many people here still do remembrance for the Napoleonic Wars, or the Hundred Years War?

@mustlovegin

Loyalty to a specific nation state (which is a pretty abstract concept, with borders changing over time) is not a natural human emotion. Loyalty to the people around you can be, but that's not the same thing

It is a natural human emotion, even animals can be territorial and protective of their own, are they 'incited' and 'wrong' too? Do animals go by 'constructs'?

A few don't feel patriotic about this country or the people who currently live around them, but that's their problem to deal with, I guess. They shouldn't expect to dictate what we do or what our traditions or rituals should look like.

Animals are not territorial to an area the size of a nation though. So as the poster you quotes said, people are often loyal to small groups (family, friends, neighbours) as a natural instinct such as can be observed in animals. Being loyal to geo-political nations that may have been designated with no reference to prexisting social groupings is not such a natural instinct (and is indeed something that has caused many civil/regional wars).

I don't think you should have been in a class if you wanted to observe it. Either stay home or be in an activity where you can stop and observe it.

While I'm aware of it I keep forgetting about the silence tbh. I always buy poppies though.

Nah, this isn't unreasonable to me, but then i don't follow the 2 minutes silence anyway.

If you had wanted to follow it, i think it was a mistake going to the swimming pool.

@mustlovegin

Do you feel the same way about Pride month or Black History month. They are whole month celebrations, but some think it's ok to disrespect the majority who decide to observe 2 minutes of silence remembering those who have lost their lives so that we can enjoy our freedom. Appalling.

Why is it that some causes appear to be fair game for a few but others are sacred?

There was something similar on twitter a few days ago. Basically someone saying 'you have your Pride Celebrations, and Black Pride Month, and endless celebrations, concessions, and voices for minorities, so please PLEASE allow me just 2 minutes to be silent, and think about all the war dead who gave their lives so that me, AND you can have our freedom.'

Very profound I thought. And the longer shit like this goes on, the more it's becoming clear that certain parts of society are expected to stay silent and never be allowed to speak up for fear of being called bigots, but others can say what they like, when they like and get away with it, because certain demographics are protected by law, whilst others are not.

@littledandelionclock Can you please point to a single person on this thread that has said that you shouldn't be allowed to observe a silence?

@SnipSnipMrBurgess

It's a bit like when you are at the pub and having a good time, then someone starts singing, and everyone is hushed to be quiet and listen. Eh no, I didn't come here to listen to you, I came here to do my own thing thanks.

Well, maybe don't go to a pub where they are putting on a music/singing act then They always announce it beforehand, on a noticeboard or poster outside (and inside) the pub.

‘There was something similar on twitter a few days ago. Basically someone saying 'you have your Pride Celebrations, and Black Pride Month, and endless celebrations, concessions, and voices for minorities, so please PLEASE allow me just 2 minutes to be silent, and think about all the war dead who gave their lives so that me, AND you can have our freedom.'

This is nuts. Not one single person on this 19 page thread has said that people aren’t allowed to do a 2 min silence. They are saying that people shouldn’t feel forced to do it at a mandated time to appease others.

This is up there with ‘the Muslims are trying to ban Christmas. It’s fictitious culture war bullshit. Do the 2 minutes silence every 2 minutes if you like, literally nobody is stopping you. What they object to is being policed and told what, when and how to remember things in the same way as you. That’s the opposite of the freedom you and the person quoted above are supposedly so interested in. Nobody is forcing you to celebrate Pride. Don’t force anybody to stand silent at the same time as you.

Can’t you see you’re putting people off even doing it at all with this behaviour.

As someone said upthread, it was British scepticism which has prevented us falling into fascism. We used to giggle at Americans ability to sing anthems and wave flags at every given opportunity.

Also, speaking as a gay person, the idea that everyone is super-respectful of Pride month and LGBT people generally, that everyone is forced to be totally silent with their homophobia, for fear of being called a bigot? Hilarious.

[quote LittleDandelionClock]@SnipSnipMrBurgess

It's a bit like when you are at the pub and having a good time, then someone starts singing, and everyone is hushed to be quiet and listen. Eh no, I didn't come here to listen to you, I came here to do my own thing thanks.

Well, maybe don't go to a pub where they are putting on a music/singing act then They always announce it beforehand, on a noticeboard or poster outside (and inside) the pub.[/quote]
I'm not sure if you are being deliberately obtuse, or it's actually a cultural thing and you english don't experience the same thing in the pub.

I'm talking about when you would be in a pub having fun, and some old fella would start singing a maudlin tune and everyone has to listen cos the old fella is singing.

Do you really think I would go into a planned gig and complain about a planned gig?

That would be the same as observing a two minute silence in respect of freedoms that were won in a war, then getting mad at people who use those freedoms not to observe the silence in the same way.

If I'm out anywhere where the silence is being observed, I join it. If I'm at home I don't give it a thought.

But I travel a lot, and in many countries across the globe, where I have discovered that there's a war cemetery, I visit it. Especially in far flung places where not many Brits will go. I find them incredibly moving, and often wish I could contact families of the names on those graves to say they've been recognised by a visitor.

So that's how I respect those people. And I'm not going to apologise for continuing to find much of the remembrance stuff here performative. And I don't wear a poppy.

@saraclara I think that's really beautiful. A meaningful and unique way to show respect. And I'm glad that we live in a society where people can choose to develop their own ways of commemorating, whether instead of or in addition to the traditional silences.

[quote rookiemere]@TheLovelinessOfDemons I feel the same about my new poppy lanyard holder and pen that I bought from the official charity van on Saturday. I didn't strictly need either item, but it's my way of supporting the charity. Nothing seems beyond criticism by some these days.[/quote]
You could have just put the money in the collecting tin rather than buying stuff you didn’t really want or need.

More waste of planetary resources.

I buy a poppy but don’t actually take one. If someone judges me for not wearing one then that’s their problem. I don’t care.

I'd assume they just didn't know. I only realised it was yesterday because I happened to turn on the radio at the right time. I was checking Twitter to see if anyone had reported the station piping in outdoor noises when the presenter came back in to say it had been a 2 minute silence.

‘I buy a poppy but don’t actually take one. If someone judges me for not wearing one then that’s their problem. I don’t care.’

But you’ve got to be SEEN to remember these days. Preferably putting it on Facebook or Insta for the likes. Otherwise it doesn’t count! #icaremorethaneveryoneelse, #engladsbiggestpatriot, #theydiedformyfreedomtotellyouwhattodo, #notwearingapoppyiswoke, #ifyoudontwearapoppyyoumusthatethiscountryandsupportISIS, #livingforthelikes

#theydiedformyfreedomtotellyouwhattodo

😆

YABU, not because they're right not to observe it, but because you shouldn't be in the gym when the silence is due anyway. It's disrespectful to be in such a place at such a time. Think about it, dozens of sweaty or damp individuals pausing for a moment from their activities, breathing heavily as they catch their breath.

Did you even have a poppy on while in the pool? I guess you can get sew-on ones or use the metal ones. I don't see how you can complain about them not holding the silence if you weren't wearing a poppy all day.

@Elphame well I always need pens and bought one for my DM who hasn't been out more or less since Covid.

I liked the lanyard holder and I rotate them around- or will once I'm back in the office more frequently- so the items I bought are not going to landfill. I prefer the lanyard to a throwaway poppy that generally falls off my jacket mid wear anyway.

YABU, I am also the wrong side of 50, but I’ll be observing the silence at the local cenotaph - on Sunday!
We used to have an obnoxious secretary at work that would pace around the office at 10:55 bellowing at everyone not to forget the minute’s silence, but as it’s an international office, quite often we would be on telephone meetings with people in other countries, where 11th November isn’t observed, or where there was a time difference.
Needless to say I now don’t judge people for not observing it on the day...