No 2 minutes silence at gym. AIBU

[Mushypeasandchipstogo]

I went to my gym today for a class in the swimming pool. I had totally expected the class to finish just before 11am so that those who wanted to could observe the two minutes silence. By 10.55am it was apparent that this was not going to happen so I just took myself out of the pool and sat in the changing room by myself.
So as to not drip feed, I am from a Forces Family and the wrong side of 50! I found this totally disrespectful of the instructor. He could have, at the very least, mentioned that he had intended to not stop before the class. AIBU to be upset by this?

to incite waves of patriotism

Patriotism isn't 'incited', it's felt.

It appears a few cannot feel it as their loyalty lies elsewhere, but why do they feel entitled to prevent the majority from following their own traditions if they wish to do so?

You don't think politicians incite patriotism (in the jingoistic sense) when it suits them? What on earth do you think propaganda is for then? Why do governments bother with it?

Loyalty to a specific nation state (which is a pretty abstract concept, with borders changing over time) is not a natural human emotion. Loyalty to the people around you can be, but that's not the same thing.

Nobody is preventing you from holding an observance whenever you want to.
And of course you can incite patriotism. Same way you can incite any feeling.
Possibly Thatcher post Falklands. Possibly Blair to mask the feelings about the live lost in Iraq. They brought back a tradition that was stopped in the 1930s for a reason.
Nobody is preventing anyone from observing a silence.

Also, no one is preventing anyone from following their own traditions. The OP chose to book a swimming lesson that would be happening at 11am. No one forced her.

The only people keen to prevent people from doing what they wish are those who want to enforce a silence on everybody, whether they wish to or not. Patriotism has nothing to do with Armistice Day.

Loyalty to a specific nation state (which is a pretty abstract concept, with borders changing over time) is not a natural human emotion. Loyalty to the people around you can be, but that's not the same thing

It is a natural human emotion, even animals can be territorial and protective of their own, are they 'incited' and 'wrong' too? Do animals go by 'constructs'?

A few don't feel patriotic about this country or the people who currently live around them, but that's their problem to deal with, I guess. They shouldn't expect to dictate what we do or what our traditions or rituals should look like.

It was ‘patriotism’ that caused all those poor lads to be fed through the meat grinder in 1914-18. Remembrance should be just that, not an excuse for jingoistic bullshit.

‘If in some smothering dreams, you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil’s sick of sin;
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,—
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori.’

In my view, on Armistice day more than any other, patriotism has absolutely no place.

"Patriotism' was cynically used as a tool to persuade millions of young men to volunteer to fight in WWI - and for what? It was a total and utter waste of life. The idea that remembering their loss is somehow 'patriotic' makes me want to be sick.

The silence on Armistice Day in effect became the opposite of patriotic. That was why it was stopped. Everyone was supposed to carry on working, indeed forced to - because working through was patriotic.

Xpost

I'm glad I'm not the only one who feels that way

Each to their own. I don't think anyone is forced . Our town has close links to the army and all traffic stopped here , I suppose that may have something to do with it

A few don't feel patriotic about this country or the people who currently live around them, but that's their problem to deal with, I guess. They shouldn't expect to dictate what we do or what our traditions or rituals should look like.

It’s not a tradition or a ritual. It’s a relatively recent invention.

Itisa natural human emotion, even animals can be territorial and protective of their own, are they 'incited' and 'wrong' too? Do animals go by 'constructs'?

Animals are loyal to those in their social group, not a nation. The UK as a nation and someone's social group are two totally different things. Nations are an abstract concept.

@mustlovegin

Loyalty to a specific nation state (which is a pretty abstract concept, with borders changing over time) is not a natural human emotion. Loyalty to the people around you can be, but that's not the same thing

It is a natural human emotion, even animals can be territorial and protective of their own, are they 'incited' and 'wrong' too? Do animals go by 'constructs'?

A few don't feel patriotic about this country or the people who currently live around them, but that's their problem to deal with, I guess. They shouldn't expect to dictate what we do or what our traditions or rituals should look like.

Nobody is dictating anything! Nobody is preventing you doing anything!

I hear murmurings of something unpleasantly like xenophobic / racist feelings whispering in the background of that suggestion though. That's usually what follows nonsense like that when balanced (or factual) points are offered.

Much more recent than Children in Need, for example.

@Lemonsyellow

Surprising that some posters are mentioning that we “won the war”. Armistice Day marks the truce, where both sides agreed not to fight. We didn’t win.

That is not correct. You are right that 11/11/1918 was an agreement to stop fighting, not a formal surrender by Germany, but the formal surrender came with the Treaty of Versailles and subsequent treaties, culminating with the Treaty of Lausanne.

Germany formally surrender in May 1945 (either on the 7th or 9th, depending on which you consider to be the official act of surrender). The surrender of Japan was formalised on 2 Sept 1945.

A few don't feel patriotic about this country or the people who currently live around them, but that's their problem to deal with, I guess. They shouldn't expect to dictate what we do or what our traditions or rituals should look like

There is a centuries-long and very fine tradition in this country of being sceptical about performative acts of patriotism, flag-waving etc. It's a very important protector of our democracy: it means we are less susceptible to fascist ideologies, which prey on cheap patriotic tropes and uncritical admiration of the military. Long may it continue.

No-one in their right mind should feel patriotic about Armistice Day. There is nothing to feel patriotic about. Lots of people died. Lots of people in power caused those deaths. And “we” didn’t even win. It was a shameful affair. Yes, remember those who died, but there should be no patriotism, only shame. WW2 is different. We were trying to defeat an evil regime, and we were ultimately on the winning side. There’s a place for some patriotism there, if you wish.

Germany formally surrender in May 1945 (either on the 7th or 9th, depending on which you consider to be the official act of surrender). The surrender of Japan was formalised on 2 Sept 1945.

What happened in 1945 is not relevant to Armistice Day, though.

A few don't feel patriotic about this country or the people who currently live around them, but that's their problem to deal with, I guess. They shouldn't expect to dictate what we do or what our traditions or rituals should look like

Who is dictating these things to you?

@Waxonwaxoff0

YABU, it isn't mandatory. If it's so important to you why did you go to a class at that time?

This. You can't blame other people.

WW2 is different. We were trying to defeat an evil regime, and we were ultimately on the winning side. There’s a place for some patriotism there, if you wish.

Even in WWII, there were many members of our government and aristocracy who supported Hitler and believed we should be on Germany's side (the former King Edward VIII among them). If history had panned out slightly differently, the UK could have been fighting on the side of the fascists.

I personally think that unquestioning belief in one's country, unquestioning belief that your government's causes are good ones etc. is always a bad thing. If that makes me unpatriotic, so be it. I'm happy to wear that label.

@MeredithGreyishblue 'flag shaggers' as you so eloquently word it or just people that like to be patriotic ??????

No, the racist loons on twitter with flags in their profiles who attend all the right wing marches and hate Marcus Rashford and "imigrants". There's a type on there.

@mustlovegin

Loyalty to a specific nation state (which is a pretty abstract concept, with borders changing over time) is not a natural human emotion. Loyalty to the people around you can be, but that's not the same thing

It is a natural human emotion, even animals can be territorial and protective of their own, are they 'incited' and 'wrong' too? Do animals go by 'constructs'?

A few don't feel patriotic about this country or the people who currently live around them, but that's their problem to deal with, I guess. They shouldn't expect to dictate what we do or what our traditions or rituals should look like.

No-one is dictating anything except you.

Observe your two minutes if you want to.

Let others do as they please.