No 2 minutes silence at gym. AIBU

[Mushypeasandchipstogo]

I went to my gym today for a class in the swimming pool. I had totally expected the class to finish just before 11am so that those who wanted to could observe the two minutes silence. By 10.55am it was apparent that this was not going to happen so I just took myself out of the pool and sat in the changing room by myself.
So as to not drip feed, I am from a Forces Family and the wrong side of 50! I found this totally disrespectful of the instructor. He could have, at the very least, mentioned that he had intended to not stop before the class. AIBU to be upset by this?

@Mushypeasandchipstogo

I went to my gym today for a class in the swimming pool. I had totally expected the class to finish just before 11am so that those who wanted to could observe the two minutes silence. By 10.55am it was apparent that this was not going to happen so I just took myself out of the pool and sat in the changing room by myself. So as to not drip feed, I am from a Forces Family and the wrong side of 50! I found this totally disrespectful of the instructor. He could have, at the very least, mentioned that he had intended to not stop before the class. AIBU to be upset by this?

If it was really that important to you, you wouldn't have been there. You would've been anywhere else where you could observe in silence and peace. Your world didn't stop. You had other things to do. You had other priorities. Don't be surprised other people's world didn't stop either.

You're not any better just because you ticked a box.

My gym had posters up saying they would
Be observing the silence. At just before 11 an announcement was made and it was observed.

Remembrance Day is 11th November, 11 am on the 11th day of the 11th month,

No, that is Armistice Day. Remembrance Day is something else altogether.

And the more you read about the aftermath of WW2, the more you realise that VE day was no such thing - it was simply when hostilities between Germany and the Allies ended. This has had repercussions ever since.

Actually, those who study it, understand that it was our behaviour having “won” WW1 which led directly to WW2. Having brought Germany to its knees, we then made damned sure they could never recover. That left a breeding ground for the Nazi party to take power. The “roaring twenties” , the booming peacetime economy were a reaction to the wartime years and led to the Wall Street crash which kicked off the Great Depression that was the final nail in the coffin for an already decimated German economy and in those types of economy it is very easy to lead a nation in to fascism.

But yes, we behaved in the same way after WW2 and many of the modern conflicts have their roots in decisions we made unilaterally after WW2 on behalf of the nations who “lost”

I didn’t observe it. Doesn’t mean i dint think of it,

Sunday is also a day to observe

You could have refrained from going if its so important to you

But yes, we behaved in the same way after WW2
The Marshall Plan was designed to be the exact opposite of the post-WWI reparations....

@Cameleongirl

Same here. I'm 47 and always had a minute or two minute silence at school. I've done that in every job I've ever had too.

@BoredZelda

From my work with WW2 veterans, many of them have very dark memories of those time - they don't identify at all with the Union Jack bunting and cosplay that now make up most UK commemorations. And they are deeply, deeply cynical about the the military, even those who are proud of their service.

All of them?

Both my grandparents served in WW2 and didn’t feel that way.

Did I say it was all of them? I specifically said I was talking about those I have worked with. I'd also wonder how many honest conversations you had with your grandfathers about their experience? Very few veterans talked about their dark experiences to their families, because there was a belief that it was better not to dwell on emotions. As an HCP in the 1990s/2000s, I was often told by veterans that they had never told their families what happened. They saw horrific sights on the battlefield, but also rape, vicious assaults (outside of battle) and the absolute worst of human nature.

We have patronising assumptions about how the WW2 generation thinks about WW2. It's far more complex, nuanced and dark than usually portrayed.

IMO, an attention-seeking numpty getting aerated about the 2 minute silence at the gym is far more of an insult to what veterans went through than people who choose to remember privately, not in the middle of a frigging swimming pool.

They might be cynical, but not as much as the people saying that a nationally recognised silence is ‘performative’. It’s respect. Do it or don’t do it but you can’t label this poignant day and hour as ‘virtue signalling’. Shame on them.

I never called the silence performative. I said if the OP was upset she couldn’t do it bang on 11, then it was performative. I was unable to take a moment at 11am. But I took it later in the day to think of friends and family who fought, some who lost their lives, in various wars over the year. The only “shame” is with people who decide that everyone MUST observe the silence.

People have clearly come so far from the horrors of WW1 that they forget how apocalyptic it was. I didn’t observe but I respect the national significance.

Or, people are well aware of the horrors and choose to honour people in a way that is personal to them. Or not to do it at all. Which is also fine, because after all, the people who fought and died, did so for our freedoms. And like it or not, that includes the freedom to treat today as any other day.

I’m not a fan of virtue signalling so YABU. If taking 2 minutes silence at that time was important to you, you should have arranged to be somewhere where it was taking place. Doing a swimming class at that time was always going to be a high risk strategy.

@Ionlydomassiveones

“From my work with WW2 veterans, many of them have very dark memories of those time - they don't identify at all with the Union Jack bunting and cosplay that now make up most UK commemorations. And they are deeply, deeply cynical about the the military, even those who are proud of their service.”

They might be cynical, but not as much as the people saying that a nationally recognised silence is ‘performative’. It’s respect. Do it or don’t do it but you can’t label this poignant day and hour as ‘virtue signalling’. Shame on them.

People have clearly come so far from the horrors of WW1 that they forget how apocalyptic it was. I didn’t observe but I respect the national significance.

No one is saying that Remembrance Sunday is performative. They are saying that silence for 2 minutes in the middle of a swimming pool or supermarket is performative and ridiculous.

Others will disagreed but it's depressing that so many posters have no better argument than to shout about disrespect. One side in WW2 had an exaggerated respect for the military and social conformity, but it wasn't the British.

I'm a "forces family" too, but an American immigrant to the UK. My father committed suicide the year I was born as he suffered from PTSD and chronic untreated health issues after three tours in Vietnam and my brother is mentally ill and intermittently homeless due to PTSD after serving in Iraq and Afghanistan. I'll go along with what others do to be respectful but I find the silence and the poppies exceedingly uncomfortable and unhelpful - it reminds me, personally, of how we honour the idea of soldiers while failing to support them in so many ways when they return- so many people with ostentatious poppies will still support immoral corporate wars and would walk by homeless veterans with a sneer of disgust.

Just like carers can't pay the bills with claps, former and current soldiers can't pay support, counselling, homes or pensions with 2 minutes of silence.

No not with two minutes of silence but did you realise that 100% of the money received from the sale of poppies goes to exactly what you mention as well as support for the Navy and the Air Force.

I'll go along with what others do to be respectful but I find the silence and the poppies exceedingly uncomfortable and unhelpful - it reminds me, personally, of how we honour the idea of soldiers while failing to support them in so many ways when they return

As someone who used to be in the army until very recently, I wholeheartedly agree with you

@Cordyceps

I'm a "forces family" too, but an American immigrant to the UK. My father committed suicide the year I was born as he suffered from PTSD and chronic untreated health issues after three tours in Vietnam and my brother is mentally ill and intermittently homeless due to PTSD after serving in Iraq and Afghanistan. I'll go along with what others do to be respectful but I find the silence and the poppies exceedingly uncomfortable and unhelpful - it reminds me, personally, of how we honour the idea of soldiers while failing to support them in so many ways when they return- so many people with ostentatious poppies will still support immoral corporate wars and would walk by homeless veterans with a sneer of disgust.

I'm so sorry. Thank you for your post, I think you have the same views my gran shared with me and I agree.

@butterpuffed

Just like carers can't pay the bills with claps, former and current soldiers can't pay support, counselling, homes or pensions with 2 minutes of silence.

No not with two minutes of silence but did you realise that 100% of the money received from the sale of poppies goes to exactly what you mention as well as support for the Navy and the Air Force.

As you’ve acknowledged yourself, they are different things. I have bought 5 poppies, 1 for each of us. I put £5 in the school collection on top of that. On Sunday I will be marching with the remembrance paragraph with my Brownies group, as I do every year. didn’t observe the silence today as I was busy, but would be judged for that?

@Cordyceps @ladygindiva I fully agree with what both of you have said.

@Libertaire

YABU.

If you wish to observe two minutes silence, carry on. Nobody is stopping you.

Others are free to ignore such public virtue-signalling if they wish.

Exactly, thank you. Virtue signalling indeed,

I live in the US now, but personally, I do have a few minutes of silence on Veteran's Day as it's called here. Others not feel the same, but I want to remember the sacrifices made so that I can live in a democracy, IYSWIM. My grandfather was killed in WW2 and my FIL served in the military during the Cold War.

Politics is so poisonous here and in the UK that I feel the need to reflect on how lucky we actually are, instead of constantly bickering about everything under the sun....we can only do that because we live in democracies that other people defended against the Nazis, etc.

it reminds me, personally, of how we honour the idea of soldiers while failing to support them in so many ways when they return- so many people with ostentatious poppies will still support immoral corporate wars and would walk by homeless veterans with a sneer of disgust.

This is spot on.

@BoredZelda

And the more you read about the aftermath of WW2, the more you realise that VE day was no such thing - it was simply when hostilities between Germany and the Allies ended. This has had repercussions ever since.

Actually, those who study it, understand that it was our behaviour having “won” WW1 which led directly to WW2. Having brought Germany to its knees, we then made damned sure they could never recover. That left a breeding ground for the Nazi party to take power. The “roaring twenties” , the booming peacetime economy were a reaction to the wartime years and led to the Wall Street crash which kicked off the Great Depression that was the final nail in the coffin for an already decimated German economy and in those types of economy it is very easy to lead a nation in to fascism.

But yes, we behaved in the same way after WW2 and many of the modern conflicts have their roots in decisions we made unilaterally after WW2 on behalf of the nations who “lost”

Though we didn't behave in the same way after WWII (the USA's Marshall Plan was specifically designed to stop the same thing happening again and through that and the hard work of the Germans themselves, modern Germany became what it is today. It was specifically NOT abandoned to just get on with it and punished).

However my post wasn't talking about the UK after WWII - there are parts of Europe which fought on for months/years, a fact which is largely forgotten. A very good read is Savage Continent by Keith Lowe, though it's exceptionally bleak.

Two minutes silence and wearing a paper/ceramic poppy will not be enough to prevent conflict again. And isn't that what true remembrance should be about - learning from the past so that catastrophic and hideous mistakes aren't repeated?

But I can't argue with what @Cordyceps and @ladygindiva say either. They are absolutely right.

Are they still alive today? That’s the point. You knew them, you don’t know them. My grandparents etc were alive in WW1, but they are long dead

The point is we are talking about 'remembering'.
I don't need to 'remember' folk who are still alive - I can go and see them, or phone them.

Ridiculous. There are services, parades to do your two minutes of reflection. If you want to do it, great, but if you make it compulsory then it is a meaningless exercise.