Red v white poppies

[Malhao]

AIBU to be unimpressed that the staff at school are trying to sell my kids red poppies without explaining the symbolism behind them?

I don't agree with the concept of war and am contemplating sending them in wearing white poppies (I've explained the difference to them and they both agree with the principles behind the white poppies) but wonder if they'll get picked on for standing out?

@toastfiend
For those who don't support the Armed Forces, I assume you don't support their involvement filling and placing sandbags when areas are at high risk of flooding?

The armed forces I'm sure does plenty of good work. Meanwhile, Chairman Mao banned foot binding... it's almost like people/organisations can do good stuff and bad stuff at the same time.

I feel the thing we should be remembering today is how tragic war is, how it destroys lives and should be avoided.

The poem 'In Flanders Fields,' that I quoted above, that is the origin of the association of poppies with the war dead, doesn't do that for you?

I'm seeing a lot of what Kipling wrote about here in this thread.

Brefugee, I find that Kipling often has something relevant to say.

@samG76
I would never wear a white poppy. A lot of the Peace Pledge Union were pro-Nazi in the late 30s and even up to 1940. Not just pro-appeasement, but genuinely supported the German invasions of their neighbours.
So was the Daily Mail, Britain's second favourite newspaper. So was the British Royal Family. Times change.

So school have a box of red poppies and are selling them to kids without telling them why? Just hey kid, buy these? Seems unlikely

YABU. You don’t seem to understand the symbolism of the red poppy at all. It has nothing at all about being in favour of the concept of war. Goodness knows what you have told your children.

@supermoonrising I never disputed that. What I said was that it showed a level of ignorance to condemn an organisation as a whole without any acknowledgement that life for us here would be pretty difficult without them. I don't think the same could be said for Chairman Mao, foot binding or not.

@samG76

I would never wear a white poppy. A lot of the Peace Pledge Union were pro-Nazi in the late 30s and even up to 1940. Not just pro-appeasement, but genuinely supported the German invasions of their neighbours. I think Orwell said that the PPU publications weren't much different from those of the British Union of Fascists.

That was a long time ago.

The UK is not going to be attacked by another state as long as it has nuclear weapons, the Second World War will not be repeated

So you can 100% guarantee this, wow.

Your username dreamingbohemian is very adequate.

I honestly wish we would all stop trying to police the actions of people who are acting within their own moral code tbh.

If wearing a white poppy suits your personal code, do so. If wearing a red one suits yours, do so.

Some people are saying that the white poppy is disrespectful to the fallen. I don’t agree, I think that it may imply that the decision to send them to war in the first place may not have been a good one, but that doesn’t say anything negative about individual servicemen and women.
And ‘divisive’ to me sounds like ‘encouraging people to think and ask awkward questions’. Like why the state doesn’t support veterans properly and so many of them end up homeless despite this massive fundraising exercise.
Or why, if the red poppy is supposed to remind us of the horrors of war, do politicians lay wreaths at the Cenotaph while happy to defend the UK’s right to sell billions worth of weapons to Saudi Arabia to pulverise Yemen.
Even if there are no easy answers, we shouldn’t be shut down from asking difficult questions.

@samG76

I would never wear a white poppy. A lot of the Peace Pledge Union were pro-Nazi in the late 30s and even up to 1940. Not just pro-appeasement, but genuinely supported the German invasions of their neighbours. I think Orwell said that the PPU publications weren't much different from those of the British Union of Fascists.

can you give some references for this ?

Some people are saying that the white poppy is disrespectful to the fallen. I don’t agree, I think that it may imply that the decision to send them to war in the first place may not have been a good one

So our country should've just accepted the advances of Hitler then rather than defend itself??

@toastfiend
I would condemn most of the recent large scale campaigns of the British Army. Incidentally, life expectancy in China rocketed under the communists which has continued to this day. So it wasn't just footbinding they got right. Compare and contrast to India, 1950-2021, which used to be on an equal development footing with China. As you concede, things are rarely black and white, though we often like to believe so.

@SpinachIsAGatewayDrug

I honestly wish we would all stop trying to police the actions of people who are acting within their own moral code tbh.

If wearing a white poppy suits your personal code, do so. If wearing a red one suits yours, do so.

That would suggest we were living in the kind of democratic, tolerant, free country that people died to protect!

oh dear - you need to educate yourself first.

@SpinachIsAGatewayDrug
Well said. Which is why things got out of hand when TV presenters were forced to wear them, when they started getting mass printed on football kits etc.

Incidentally, life expectancy in China rocketed under the communists which has continued to this day

What are you trying to say? Life expectancy 'rocketed' under non-communist countries too in the last 80 years

I used to buy a red poppy, I've never seen white or purple ones for sale anywhere around where I live. I stopped about 5 years ago. We have remembered the fallen of the first world war for more than 100 years now. i feel it is time to move our thoughts into the category of all the previous wars to that over history. There are no soldiers from that conflict left alive now and private thought is fine but public display seems to be virtue signalling to me.
My father would be 95 if he was still alive. He was too young to be called up into the second world war but was called up for national service. We have reached the going now where RBL is supporting hardly anyone from this conflict, and probably has sufficient funds for the few who remain.
I am certainly not buying a poppy to pay for support for any of those who have signed up on a voluntary basis to join the army since WW2. They made the choice and knew the risks, if they were injured the government should pay for their rehabilitation etc. and not allow society as a whole to be guilt tripped into doing so. I do not want to pay towards anyone who took a job which they knew could involve killing people.

A relative of mine was killed in WWI. It was young men being sacrificed for power struggles, not the greater good or principles. The red poppy raises cash for all those in the services and/or their families. Not really linked to the world wars in Europe any more. The WWI thing is probably kept as gives it an air of sanctity to have the WW's on the tin, rather than Iraq etc.

The state should take full responsibility for the people they send to fight. And in the aftermath when they leave.

My town is weirdly (to the point of inappropriate costs in a financially tough climate) obsessed with remembrance day. I've lost the poppy i bought. I'm honestly avoiding going out today because I WILL be abused in the street for not wearing one. It's insane

Yabu. My dad didn't agree with the concept of war but was part of the DDay landings. He was in his early 20s.

People who think like you demean what these young men did for their country.

Honestly, look at today's Daily Mail headline (yes, that pro-fascist paper)

"Fury at SNP and Labour MPs 'who got drunk on flight to Gibraltar for official Remembrance event, with one having to be put in a WHEELCHAIR' - as Defence Minister rages against 'lack of respect for our armed forces'"

And people say the Poppy hasn't been/isn't being politicised.......give me a break.

@ExConstance British soldiers are still dying today, still leaving the army and needing support. The Royal British Legion supports a great number of people that have served in Ireland, Kosovo, Falklands, Iraq, Afghanistan.

@mustlovegin
What are you trying to say? Life expectancy 'rocketed' under non-communist countries too in the last 80 years

If you can be bothered to read my comment clearly, it explicitly made a comparison with India during the exact same time period. Two very large, populated countries which started in a similar economic position and life expectancy.
"What are you trying to say".
That most things are not all good or all bad.

Multiple meaning (red, white, purple etc) should be embraced but of course it's not!

We are obsessed with wars because we "won" them. Other countries are not so distasteful.

Yes, I used to wear a poppy. But then started to realise that really only one demographic of person is truly represented by the poppy. It's always the same.

I am white. I have family who fought in both world wars. It's not about that. I have deep gratitude for the sacrifices.

But does the poppy really represent that for all who put their lives on the line? No it doesn't.

[And we categorically would not have "won" had it not been for the US saving the day. ]

.. The Dambusters is another twisted tale which was not victimless. Almost 2000 innocent people (basically "people") drowned. It's not this clean strategic masterpiece that our narrative purports year in year out. We managed to ignore the facts very well. That's not glorious.

The whole thing reeks of something distasteful to me nowadays. We should quietly acknowledge the past and look to creating a better, peaceful and forward thinking future, like other (European) countries.... Rather than wallowing in this misplaced glory of "winning".