Red v white poppies

[Malhao]

AIBU to be unimpressed that the staff at school are trying to sell my kids red poppies without explaining the symbolism behind them?

I don't agree with the concept of war and am contemplating sending them in wearing white poppies (I've explained the difference to them and they both agree with the principles behind the white poppies) but wonder if they'll get picked on for standing out?

@Prattypitel

No other country in the world is doing this poppy thing.However,Britain is a country that is quite ready to involve itself in a war.I find the whole thing totally baffling.And why do we have a populist government now,when we are proud to have fought off a populist leader in the 2,world war???

However useless Boris is, it's a bit of a stretch to compare him to Hitler!

@Owlmeow I completely agree, I have had a lot of family and friends serve (in both the US and UK) and in most cases it was from a desire to escape/radically change their life chances. I don't personally judge anyone who serves (I do judge the people who send them into terrible situations). I just think we should be careful about conflating the world wars with today's wars, they are completely different.

@mustlovegin

I’m not sure you can just opt out of the concept of war OP

^This

If we are under attack, we can simply shout 'gentle hands' 'be kind' 'we don't do war in this country' and the attacker will simply go away...

Some people do live on fantasy land, for sure

Were we under attack by Iraq? I don’t seem to remember that.

@notimagain

They weren’t conscripted. If you take a job like being a soldier these days you’re aware of the risks and have made an active choice to be involved in killing other people

As long as you are consistent and won’t accept these volunteers assistance when they come to the aid of the Civil powers (adding the NHS in various roles in the last year plus, helping with flood protection, etc) then that’s a fair enough POV.

If this government were more competent, we wouldn't need the armed forces to step in and do civilian jobs. I think most people would happily excuse them from those duties.

Jesus Christ, not everything needs to be a political stance

Agreed. I don't have a poppy this year - I blinked and it's 11th November. But it's not pro-war to remember people who died.

I feel the thing we should be remembering today is how tragic war is, how it destroys lives and should be avoided

I thought that was what we were doing.

I hate white poppies. They're divisive and insulting. The people who wear them also like to go on about how they're anti-war with an air of superiority as if we all wear red poppies because we love war.

This reads as if you think people wearing red poppies are pro war and are proudly showing their support..? I think perhaps it is you, rather than your children, who needs someone to explain all this to them...

Red poppies are to remember those who have died and to raise money for charity.

I also don’t see them as pro war. I wear one and consider myself a pacifist.

@BessieFinknottle

People here are mistaken if they think wearing red poppies aren't a political and divisive symbol. I know it's natural for British people to want to support their army, but there are many people living in the UK from places where British soldiers were the invaders, a colonial power, and a destructive force. They have absolutely no wish to support the British army.

@BessieFinknottle

Tosh. Wearing a red poppy is not making a political statement, nor is it divisive. Millions wear the poppy, attend parades etc to remember those who sacrificed their lives and those millions include people from the very many different nationalities who live in this country, including those were the British were ‘ invaders, a colonial power and a destructive force’

Time has moved on, I suggest you do

I think the problem is that some people misinterpret the red poppies to this effect - including some who display them - so circling back to your first point, I guess some education is in order

@MRex
It is a career, but one in which they frequently place their own lives at risk by agreeing to go wherever the ruling government sends them to serve this country.

That's a poor excuse for fighting an immoral war which sees 10,000s of civilian deaths (Afghanistan) or 100,000s (Iraq).

If you don't think a particular war is appropriate then lobby your MP
Trouble is we're not talking about a once in a century exception, post WW2 we're talking about the norm.

As you yourself recognise, (and is stated on the British Legion website), the poppy is a sign of support for the British armed forces/armed forces community. Full stop.
So no, I don't support the armed forces due to their actions in Afghanistan, Iraq, Ireland etc.
If it was kept to remembering the tragic bloodbath of WW2 and the huge sacrifice of life in WW2 I would support that, but clearly it isn't. Let's not pretend otherwise, as even the British Legion website states as such.

If this government were more competent, we wouldn't need the armed forces to step in and do civilian jobs. I think most people would happily excuse them from those duties.

But they are not, so “we” are stuck with the concept of what used to be known as aid to the civil power.

I’m very much aware that Kipling is not at all PC but I agree that the “Tommy” poem mentioned upthread is very relevant today.

Anyhow if you’ll excuse me I’ve go, I’ve got some serious remembering to do, contemplating colleagues who were in Hm Forces and who died helping keep the peace when the threat was very real and out of the East….

"Poppies are worn as a show of support for the Armed Forces community."

www.britishlegion.org.uk/get-involved/remembrance/about-remembrance/the-poppy

the staff at school are trying to sell my kids red poppies without explaining the symbolism behind them
Can you say more about this?
I have to say, I'm not impressed if it's being done as purely a poppy-selling exercise rather than a learning opportunity. If that's the case then YANBU.

I do not buy or wear any poppy but if I had to it'd be both white and red, for similar reasons to Michael Morpurgo's quoted here.

White poppies are in no way insulting . They may be 'divisive', though, to those struggling with nuanced thinking.

@mustlovegin

I’m not sure you can just opt out of the concept of war OP

^This

If we are under attack, we can simply shout 'gentle hands' 'be kind' 'we don't do war in this country' and the attacker will simply go away...

Some people do live on fantasy land, for sure

Totally agree.

School undoubtedly will have explained the significance of the red poppy, now you've confused the issue by somehow twisting the meaning and giving them a white one because you're 'anti-war'. Like all of us wearing red ones love war? Christ on a bike. A remembrance poppy isn't remembering war like oh yes chaps jolly good war that was, let's have a flower to remember it by

I think your white poppy is disrespectful to those who gave their lives, quite frankly.

I don't agree with the concept of war 

I don't either. I put on a poppy this morning though and suddenly all I wanted to do was enlist. Fortunately, as I was Googling 'join the RAF' and planning on how to annihilate my enemies, the poppy fell off and now I'm anti war again.

That ^^ is as stupid as your post.

"Poppies are worn as a show of support for the Armed Forces community."

and how does that statement support war? I and thousands of people like me joined the military with the express intent of preventing wars. I'm happy to say that on my watch, on the bit that i did, the invading hordes didn't come over the inner German border in their tanks. A lot of us worked very hard at that. You're welcome.

I don't agree with the concept of war

Neither do most people. It's not something entered into for fun, you know.

Where would we be now (and most of the rest of Europe) if everyone had thought like you in 1914 and 1939?

@mustlovegin

I’m not sure you can just opt out of the concept of war OP

^This

If we are under attack, we can simply shout 'gentle hands' 'be kind' 'we don't do war in this country' and the attacker will simply go away...

Some people do live on fantasy land, for sure

This is exactly the danger in mixing up the world wars with today's wars, it takes the nobility of self-defence in the Second World War and extends it to today where it's not really the case.

The UK had not been attacked by Afghanistan or Iraq when it invaded those countries. The campaign against ISIS had more of a self-defence justification, but ISIS would never have come into being if the Iraq war hadn't happened in the first place.

The UK is not going to be attacked by another state as long as it has nuclear weapons, the Second World War will not be repeated. Its biggest threat is domestic terrorism but military force is not the only, or even the best, way to combat that.

If the UK armed forces were used purely in self-defence and for peacekeeping, I don't think people would have so many objections to the poppy. But this has never been the case. I don't personally object to the red poppy but I disagree that those who do are living in 'fantasy land'.

I would never wear a white poppy. A lot of the Peace Pledge Union were pro-Nazi in the late 30s and even up to 1940. Not just pro-appeasement, but genuinely supported the German invasions of their neighbours. I think Orwell said that the PPU publications weren't much different from those of the British Union of Fascists.

For those who don't support the Armed Forces, I assume you don't support their involvement filling and placing sandbags when areas are at high risk of flooding? I assume you don't support their involvement when there's no one else to drive petrol tankers? I assume you don't support their involvement in rescue operations and humanitarian efforts during crises at home and abroad? I assume you don't support their involvement when our emergency services strike or are short-staffed and they're drafted in to put out fires and drive ambulances instead? I assume you don't support their involvement when the NHS are short on staff or lack capacity to coordinate national strategies and Army medics and logistics staff are drafted in? I hope you wouldn't plan on accepting their help in these situations, given that you're so opposed to them? It's not just about fighting wars, they have a huge part to play in supporting British infrastructure and they're often the first people we send to support humanitarian efforts in other countries, to blanketly state that you don't support them whatsoever displays a real level of ignorance. Who do you think would step in to do all these things if they didn't? I assume you're not volunteering to do so?

I'm not a pacifist by any means, but I do recognise that there's a difference between remembering brave men fighting an existential battle for their homelike and way of life VS a marauding hitech army dropping thousands of bombs on some far away land in defence of anti-terror/oil/geopolitical economic strategy.

Unfortunately the poppy has never clearly defined, which isn't helped by the BL defining themselves still loosely defining it as "supporting the armed forces".

All countries have charities for those in the forces that protected the weak against the tyrants. All countries find that the survivors and relatives of casualties need extra help.
We have the British Legion the Americans have several organisations that support Veterans, Canada has as well they also have red poppies.
Most soldiers are anti-war, they fully understand the consequences of battle.
Go and visit a war cemetery check on the ages.

Ask the British people of the Channel Islands about what it is like to be invaded and occupied by the German Army in WW2. The rest of UK avoided that.
Do some research.

In what way was the last war futile and pointless? Would you really have been happy with Nazi rule so long as peace was preserved?