Red v white poppies

[Malhao]

AIBU to be unimpressed that the staff at school are trying to sell my kids red poppies without explaining the symbolism behind them?

I don't agree with the concept of war and am contemplating sending them in wearing white poppies (I've explained the difference to them and they both agree with the principles behind the white poppies) but wonder if they'll get picked on for standing out?

attack on Europe and the U.K. is and will be in the future, with cyber warfare

Cyber attacks and physical attacks are not mutually exclusive. They can both happen and we need to be prepared for both

@OhGiveUp exactly that.
Look at WWII - bar the SS and other kill squads who either volunteered or were hand selected for that particular job, both sides were just a bunch of terrified, conscripted kids in way over their heads, doing whatever they had to do in order to make it home alive. That’s the crux of it.
They deserve the basic respect of being remembered without anyone feeling the need to make it about their own political or moral leanings.

@notimagain

Agreed, although the Russians aren’t Soviets anymore. I brought in the Russian threat because @dreamingbohemian states (among other things)

“The UK is not going to be attacked by another state as long as it has nuclear weapons, the Second World War will not be repeated. Its biggest threat is domestic terrorism but military force is not the only, or even the best, way to combat that.”

When in fact, nuclear weapons deter nuclear war, not all war. So, you can’t disband your Armed Forces and depend on a couple hundred nukes to deter all potential attacks. And the biggest military threat to the U.K. is not domestic terrorism but Russia according to British security experts.

@dreamingbohemian seems to be implying in all their posts that there is no real need for Armed Forces.

The Poppy has lost its meaning and for a subset of right leaning people is an expression of love for the country armed forces and in not wearing one you are deemed a traitor to the country and a dangerous person indeed.

The media, politicians and celebs all put on the act and play along to enhance their image.

And for a subset of left leaning people, Poppy wearing can only mean you are one of the far right Britain first types.

I just stay out of it altogether nowadays.

The focus of this country should be make sure we don't get involved in any future wars or bombing etc of other countries. That will be a true lesson learned.

Red poppies are to symbolise those who died to allow us to have thoughts like yours. If they hadn’t sacrificed their lives where would we be now?

Unfortunately their deaths were largely pointless and unnecessary. World war 1 was about nothing. World war 2 was avoidable. None of the wars since have been about anything that would have affected us directly. Poppy day enables justification of pointless warfare which is why I disagree with it.

@dreamingbohemian

That's true *@dropitlikeitsloth* but you don't need a large standing army to defend against cyber warfare.

Good job we don't have a large standing army anymore then I guess. Do you think the military has personnel who work do cyber stuff?

The Poppy has lost its meaning and for a subset of right leaning people is an expression of love for the country armed forces

It hasn’t lost it’s meaning for me and I suspect many other non right leaning people.

Personally for me it’s an expression of remembrance for the three close friends and maybe another dozen or so not so quite close colleagues of mine who lost their lives in the Cold War, killed in training, to prevent it going “hot”… and as somebody said upthread in that context - you’re welcome.

Finally, Putin is expansionist by nature
Russia would say exactly the same about the West. Take a look at the last few hundred years history of, say, Britain and Germany for starters. Look at the US military bases circling the globe. Look at the expansionist ambitions of the EU. Russians don’t see us as “the good guys”

YABU for sending your kids to a school where you worry a different colour poppy could be a trigger for them to be picked on

I will continue to support our servicemen even when I hate the decisions our government makes
Cos they’re just doing their jobs and they might get killed cos there’s a war going on? Just following orders? That argument doesn’t have a very honorable history. Shouldn’t you look at the right/wrong of what they’re doing rather than the fact that you share a passport with them?

Christ. I dread hearing the lame-arse excuse of 'people who died for our freedom'. The poppy refers to the fields of Flanders (WWI); an Imperial spat between royal cousins. Nothing to do with freedom whatsoever.

More recently, it's been hijacked by pro-war, jingoistic loons. Grim, faux patriotism.

As a young person in the late 80s and 90s I fully supported wearing the poppy. Sadly the last twenty years has seen elements of the twisted British media adopt Remembrance Day and the Poppy as a vehicle to bash basically anyone who isn’t politically right wing. See today’s Daily Mail screeching headline which links SNP and Labour politicians (apparently) having one too many drinks on a flight ... with disrespecting Remembrance Day and “disrespecting the armed forces” and ... look basically If you Voted Labour You Are Evil and Not a Patriot....
Long story short, the right wing press has turned what used to be a shared but also quiet and personal act of remembrance of WW1 and WW2, into a modern day screaming political hate match against people who do not shout loudly enough in support of the military and have the cheek to hold some left wing ideals and question some aspects of military spending. So Sadly, many people now choose not to wear the poppy, as they do not want to stand with this horrible finger pointing and politicization by association. (that’s before even opening a discussion on the morally dubious nature of many of Britain’s recent military campaigns).

Long story short, the right wing press has turned what used to be a shared but also quiet and personal act of remembrance of WW1 and WW2, into a modern day screaming political hate

If you choose to see it that way then that’s your choice…

Personally I don’t agree at all the idea the tales almost enforced wearing of Poppies we are hear about but OTOH some here really need to take the blinkers off/drop the prejudice.

Some people, perhaps many, decide to wear the poppy, red, white or whatever for personal reasons that have nothing to do with their politics, or patriotism, faux or otherwise.

See today’s Daily Mail screeching headline which links SNP and Labour politicians (apparently) having one too many drinks on a flight

Blame the messenger then, rather than rightly calling out those who actually got drunk on a flight

I don't wear a red poppy because I love war though. I wear it because people like my great grandad sacrificed themselves so I can be alive today.

@Prattypitel

No other country in the world is doing this poppy thing.However,Britain is a country that is quite ready to involve itself in a war.I find the whole thing totally baffling.And why do we have a populist government now,when we are proud to have fought off a populist leader in the 2,world war???

I think what is really baffling is the sweeping statement that no other country does this. It's like you are down on Britishness whilst simultaneously claiming to be unique. There's nothing special about having the poppy as a symbol, other countries do too. In France, they picked the cornflower as a symbol.

@lescompagnonsdeloue.what I meant was,in no other country are people so hysteric about wearing a poppy.Do you wear other badges too,charities you donated too?I just dont need to wear a badge that I donated to a particular charity.I see the poppy similar to what happened to the english flag.some right wingers have taken it on.for me,its not what you wear on your coat,its what you wear in your heart.I dont have a problem at all,if people want to show the poppy.I recent,when people comment why I dont wear a poppy.

in no other country are people so hysteric about wearing a poppy

Why do you say people are hysterical? That's very offensive

@mustlovegin

in no other country are people so hysteric about wearing a poppy

Why do you say people are hysterical? That's very offensive

@Prattypitel I'm not seeing any hysteria.

@KurtWilde.Imagine a poor television presenter lost his/her poppy in the dressingroom before appearing live on TV.you can bet a million,the right wing press would have a screeching headline on the front page the next day.I remember,the first time someone was wearing a white poppy:all hell broke loose.

So. The reasons why people are losing their lives nowadays include the following:

1. One in 5 kids are in poverty and their parents make choices about whether to eat or not.
2. The NHS is in crisis - staff are burned out. They shouldn't be asked to work fifty sixty hours a week.
3. There is a shortage of carers for older people and younger people.
4. There aren't even enough ambulances to go round. Front page news. and if it weren't front page news most people where I live know that you could die waiting for an ambulance if you got ill as there is a two hour wait.

So. Yes, I'm sorry these people lost their lives, but not, not, not so that 'we' could 'live'.

Something not right there.
NHS was founded for a reason.
My own mother was in the first NHS TB ward. Ever.
That was a pandemic.

And she lived through the wars.
But she never had to live though home schooling. No funds for even a dentist appointment.

So would someone explain exactly what it is the 'freedom' that the soldiers went to war for?

No offence to their memory at all, but perhaps we should recall what it is that they considered they were fighting for in the first place?

If not a health system to help those in need?
Or schools that run properly?

And before anyone starts on at me. My grandad died in Ypres in the trenches.

Imagine a poor television presenter lost his/her poppy in the dressingroom before appearing live on TV

He would be lent another poppy by one of his/her decent and well-meaning colleagues. That's what would happen (though not amongst your circle it seems)

@beigebrownblue you do know that majority during WWI and WWII weren’t conscripts right? They weren’t there by choice
And as for modern wars: I made the choice to join the army at 16. I grew up on the breadline, with a poor education and even poorer employment prospects. The army offered me qualifications I otherwise wouldn’t have gained, it offered me job security - a pay check at the end of every single month with no questions asked, it offered me a roof over my head, 3 square meals a day. So yes, I chose it. But no one actively chooses to go to war, watch their friends die, get seriously injured. I didn’t go out on patrol one day, watch some kids playing football in a field and think “I’m going to be picking shrapnel out of that 3 year old’s back in a few hours - sounds like a fun day out!”
Speaking from experience, and the general consensus among my ex-colleagues, the “bigger picture” generally doesn’t enter our headspace when it comes to the crux of it. We go where we are told to go, Do what we are told to do and just try to make it back with ourselves and our mates all in one piece.
It’s only really in recent months with the news coming out of Afghanistan, and another 9 years of growing up behind me that I’ve asked myself the questions “What was it for?” and “What was the point?”.

So would someone explain exactly what it is the 'freedom' that the soldiers went to war for?

If you didn't have this freedom you would realise what it means pretty soon, I can assure you.

The fact that you even need to ask this question speaks volumes