Red v white poppies

[Malhao]

AIBU to be unimpressed that the staff at school are trying to sell my kids red poppies without explaining the symbolism behind them?

I don't agree with the concept of war and am contemplating sending them in wearing white poppies (I've explained the difference to them and they both agree with the principles behind the white poppies) but wonder if they'll get picked on for standing out?

white poppy nonsense can fuck right off and I'm very anti aggression let alone war.

People here are mistaken if they think wearing red poppies aren't a political and divisive symbol. I know it's natural for British people to want to support their army, but there are many people living in the UK from places where British soldiers were the invaders, a colonial power, and a destructive force. They have absolutely no wish to support the British army.

@BessieFinknottle

Tosh. Wearing a red poppy is not making a political statement, nor is it divisive. Millions wear the poppy, attend parades etc to remember those who sacrificed their lives and those millions include people from the very many different nationalities who live in this country, including those were the British were ‘ invaders, a colonial power and a destructive force’

Time has moved on, I suggest you do

Northen Ireland is part of the UK, @Chloemol.
I can assure you that wearing a red poppy is divisive there.

Why do you think the footballer James McClean gets in trouble every year for this?

The poppy represents support of the British army as well as being a memorial of the dead of the world wars. That's the problem, it means more than one thing.

I've no issue with people wearing a poppy if they choose btw, but dislike the obligation and expectation that you must.

@PurpleParrotfish I'm fully aware of what it stands for, my mum lost her uncle in WWI. I was using that as an example as I don't have time to outline the other occasions when we defended our country.

YABVU. Poppies are a symbol of remembrance and gratitude for those who served. I do not object to white poppies, but be clear this if your DCs wear one, this is not part of an act of remembrance and does nothing to support those who served.

If you don't agree with the red poppy then you should wear an Iron Cross instead.

Just to be clear poppies are not some sort of white British thing. I am Indian and my family served in WW two on a number of fronts as did a vast numbers of Commonwealth troops. I will be observing the two minutes silence alongside the rest of my family- as we do every year.

I feel that the poppy expresses remembrance and a solemn reminder of the cost of war so that we only ever enter conflict if it is entirely necessary and doing nothing would be unquestionably worse
I feel a white poppy expresses this.

@mustlovegin

I’m not sure you can just opt out of the concept of war OP

^This

If we are under attack, we can simply shout 'gentle hands' 'be kind' 'we don't do war in this country' and the attacker will simply go away...

Some people do live on fantasy land, for sure

This.

We have remembered the fallen of the first world war for more than 100 years now. i feel it is time to move our thoughts into the category of all the previous wars to that over history.

Since you're apparently unaware where the money from buying red poppies goes,

www.britishlegion.org.uk/about-us/armed-forces-community-support

It is not only about remembering the dead - although we should as a reminder of what war means - but supporting the living who need help. A government sends them to war and leaves them when they can't work any more. The RBL does a lot of work with veterans with PTSD, homlessness etc.

I don't have a problem with people not wearing poppies, or wearing any or all of the different coloured ones. But we need a standing army, if only to help in times of crisis. Where i live (Germany) we have our national day of mourning next week, and there will be wreaths laid at all the memorials to the war dead. Our village war memorial is maintained by a church group, as are all the ones in the nearby villages, and they are very respectful of all war dead. They also maintain cemetries of war dead from other countries, not just their allies.

[quote KurtWilde]@PurpleParrotfish I'm fully aware of what it stands for, my mum lost her uncle in WWI. I was using that as an example as I don't have time to outline the other occasions when we defended our country. [/quote]
your mum, about 8 of my family and around 10 of my husbands that we re aware of [i do ancestry] most families lost someone to a war.
Millions in this country want to remember and quite rightly so, wars have been fought so we have the freedom to wear a red poppy and remember.

@IntermittentParps

I feel that the poppy expresses remembrance and a solemn reminder of the cost of war so that we only ever enter conflict if it is entirely necessary and doing nothing would be unquestionably worse I feel a white poppy expresses this.

So why do you need a white poppy if you feel that a proper one expresses your feelings? Is it to deliberately cut out the charitable donation to the RBL, or to appear different?

What everyone else has said about the red poppy, obviously.

Regarding the white poppy - nobody 'likes' war. But there seems to be confusion about declaring yourself a pacifist. A pacifist is more than someone who doesn't like war (ie. 99% of the world), it is about being passive to attack. Laying down and letting yourself be killed rather than striking back because to defend yourself would not be a 'passive action' and would be an affront to your self declared pacifist label.

I will wear my red poppy but think the white poppy is completely un-necessary. it's like wearing a symbol that declares that you are 'anti stabbing penguins' - of course you are. Any decent person would be.

I dont know who the poppy money actually helps. I know a few ex servicepeople and none of the ex-service organisations has helped them when asked.

Remembrance Day has evolved to include all wars and conflict, not just WW.

For me it is a day to remember my brother-in-law, an absolutely wonderful guy who died in Iraq, whilst trying to keep every damn person on this thread safe.

I have more of a problem with supporting todays armed forces than I do with remembering and honouring those who were lost in WW1 & 2.

Those who served in WW1&2 often didn’t have a choice.

People today very much have a choice, I don’t believe that anyone can join the army today and not know the risks of physical or mental injury.

I wear a red and white poppy together.

@LindaEllen
You should be happy that you have the freedom to not agree with the concept of war. We are a free country thanks to the men, women, children and animals that lost their lives in the wars.

What would have happened to people who 'didn't agree with the concept of war' and refused to fight in the 1900s? They'd have got shot, that's what

The pro poppy brigade have fingers firmly in their ears. The majority of those against what the poppy has come to symbolize are NOT repeat NOT complete pacifists. They are however against the huge politicization of the poppy in recent years, and the way it’s become a symbol of support for every recent military escapade, most of which are far from honorable.

Just look at the state of today’s headline in Britain’s second biggest selling paper, the DM if you don’t believe the politicization.

I'd just throw in that the need for financial support for former soldiers, widows and dependents post-WWI, pre-welfare state, was very, very different to that need now.

If former soldiers and their dependents are not being supported adequately now, that is a political issue. Some people choose to address all sorts of issues of limited state provision through the discretionary support of certain charities. Others by lobbying politically for more or different distribution of funds raised through taxation. Others again do both. That's another issue of freedom of choice. There is no general, social or moral obligation now, to support the poppy appeal or related charities.

@Balonziaga

What everyone else has said about the red poppy, obviously.

Regarding the white poppy - nobody 'likes' war. But there seems to be confusion about declaring yourself a pacifist. A pacifist is more than someone who doesn't like war (ie. 99% of the world), it is about being passive to attack. Laying down and letting yourself be killed rather than striking back because to defend yourself would not be a 'passive action' and would be an affront to your self declared pacifist label.

I will wear my red poppy but think the white poppy is completely un-necessary. it's like wearing a symbol that declares that you are 'anti stabbing penguins' - of course you are. Any decent person would be.

Well said.

@PinkPlantCase

I have more of a problem with supporting todays armed forces than I do with remembering and honouring those who were lost in WW1 & 2.

Those who served in WW1&2 often didn’t have a choice.

People today very much have a choice, I don’t believe that anyone can join the army today and not know the risks of physical or mental injury.

I wear a red and white poppy together.

He knew the risks and he did it anyway. Bravest person I knew. Every time one of his friends died, we asked him not to go back and he said, if I don’t, who will?

“they both agree with the principles behind the white poppies“

FML. YABU to believe this. Kids agree with whatever makes their parent pleased.

I have no problem with the fund-raising and remembrance side of poppy wearing, it is important to mark the sacrifice of previous generations in armed conflicts.
However it feels to me that the original purposes behind Remembrance Day have now become manipulated into holding a different meaning. I loathe the performative nature of poppy wearing by the ‘great and the good’, the media, and companies using it as an advertising/image enhancing exercise. The scrambling to be recognised for being the ‘right-stuff’, and the insincerity of it all and the castigation of individuals who decide not to wear one.
I still buy poppies each year, but feel no need to display myself wearing one.
War (in the main) is a terrible failure by world leaders many lives are wasted pointlessly eg all the lives lost in Afghanistan, Iraq, and WW1. By ‘celebrating’ each year we are somehow perpetuating the myth that war and the death of young men is glorious and honourable, it is not - death and maiming in war is something to be abhorred. I get that it helps the bereaved feel lives were not wasted, but the reality is (in most cases) they were.

The red poppy is a symbol of remembrance and hope for a peaceful future. It is not a pro-war symbol.

Britain still has a very imperial, pro-war mentality. It was clear as day that Blair was lying his ass off against Iraq AND the HoC was complicit. (remember that more Tories were in favor of it than Labour MPs). It was clear as day that Afghanistan would be a colossal waste of human life and resources. And yet the British Public STILL lapped up and supported the nonsense Blair and Bush were spouting. It would never ever have been bought by the electorates in Germany, Belgium, Spain, Ireland, Switzerland etc. Because the modern day people in those countries have learnt lessons from recent history and don’t see any glory or honor in bombing some far off land.

The red poppy represents remembrance of the British Armed Forces in all wars.. The white poppy represents ALL victims, military and civilians and aims to stop the exclusion of non armed forces from Remembrance events.
Why would you not want to honour everyone who died for their country just because they weren't in the forces? The white poppy includes people like the volunteer aircraft watchers, the woman who worked in the factories making equipment to fight with which ultimately caused the death of many of those making them? The people on the street who does helping others? Inconceivable to me only the armed forces deserve remembering.

@Flossy05
No, it’s first aim is “to support the armed forces community”.
From the RL website.

It’s also a way to bash anybody who casts any doubt on any modern military campaign. See today’s DM headline and typical attempted politicization of Remembrance Day. Now THAT is a disgusting insult to people who died in WW2 hoping for a tolerant and reasonable society.