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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Singapore not giving free treatment to anti-vaxxers

270 replies

Whose · 10/11/2021 20:04

stops paying for Covid treatment for people who are unvaccinated by choice | The Independent" www.independent.co.uk/asia/southeast-asia/singapore-free-covid-treatment-unvaccinated-b1954077.html?amp

AIBU to think this fair enough?

Currently, unvaccinated persons make up a sizeable majority of those who require intensive inpatient care, and disproportionately contribute to the strain on our healthcare resources,

(Those who haven't had the vaccine because they medically can't are excluded from this)

OP posts:
OnlyFoolsnMothers · 12/11/2021 07:03

@LadyCampanulaTottington

What if the heart attack victim smokes? Or drinks heavily? Or eats a lot of butter? Or is obese-?

Are people wilfully ignoring the fact that you don’t pass on smoke related illness or heart attacks. You don’t risk giving your doctor or nurse cancer if you end up in hospital ffs.

It’s a stupid lazy comparison.

You’re missing the entire point- they aren’t billing people because they infect others it’s because they are clogging up a service they may not need do if they had the vaccine- hence the comparison.
Sugarandtime · 12/11/2021 07:05

Governments divide and conquer working well I see

FrangipaniBlue · 12/11/2021 07:25

A lot of wrong information on this thread and pearl clutching from people who haven't bothered to take the time to understand the issue.

The Singapore government ARE NOT withholding treatment from anti vaxxers.

All treatment in Singapore is paid for, they don't have a free at point of service healthcare system.

They have simply told those who are vaccinated against covid that should they catch covid, they can have free treatment.

CatsArePeople · 12/11/2021 08:07

Are people wilfully ignoring the fact that you don’t pass on smoke related illness or heart attacks. You don’t risk giving your doctor or nurse cancer if you end up in hospital ffs.

Second hand smoke? Drunken violence? You totally pass the consequences of your behaviour onto others.
Oh, and don't forget any car driver and their impact on the environment.

onlychildhamster · 12/11/2021 08:15

@CheeseMmmm the illegal homosexuality law is only on the books, it is never enforced. Legacy of colonial law and now can't be taken off cos of the evangelical Christian zealots. There is pink dot in Singapore which is like pride but more family friendly every year. Wouldn't be that if that law was enforced.

Our foreign workers are not illegal. There is actually very little illegal immigration in Singapore due to strict border controls. My dad owns commercial property in Singapore and he once told me he always checks who his tenants are and who their employees are from (illegals would tend to stay at their workplace) cos he can be jailed if found harbouring illegal immigrants.

They are an important part of Singapore and they live in dorms. Dorm conditions could be improved and they are trying to improve them. Like the ancestors of most 'native' singaporeans, they remit all their money home.

It isn't a two tier system, it's based on subsides and insurance and mandatory health savings. In fact, some Singaporeans even think foreigners have more advantages as employers legally have to pay 17% into CPF (mandatory savings account for pension, property and healthcare), in addition to employee 20% contribution. For good jobs for good employers this isn't an issue, it's worth it to get a good local candidate and of course this is like free money for the employee. But for bad jobs? Stingy employers rather hire the young foreign worker who doesn't need these additional contributions; hence why some 40 year old professionals are now Grab drivers (grab is Singapore version of Uber).

DumplingsAndStew · 12/11/2021 08:37

This thread is fantastic Grin It's the perfect demonstration of how some "anti vaxers" just spout crap and don't read or have any knowledge of what they're talking about. Beautiful.

Singapore do not run a free (at the point of use) healthcare system. They are not penalising those who are unvaccinated, they are offering a perk to those who are vaccinated.

Kind of like how driving licences aren't penalising those who don't have one by not allowing them to drive, instead benefiting those who do have one, by allowing them to drive. Or benefiting those who possess a passport, by allowing them international travel, rather than penalising those who don't possess a passport.

But oh no, what about fat people?!?

Hilarious.

onlychildhamster · 12/11/2021 08:38

@LobsterNapkin. www.commonwealthfund.org/international-health-policy-center/countries/singapore

Singapore has universal health coverage - it is just not free at the point of access.. it is funded through mandatory health savings account, mandatory health insurance and subsidies. I mean, just because something is free is kinda useless if you can't access it. I mean my DH had an abscess that needed operating on and is technically entitled to free NHS treatment.he called the hospital, they said he has to wait for an undisclosed amount of time. He went private instead, cost £200 as he has health insurance but he had to pay the initial £200 to claim. Compare that to my dad in Singapore. Needed an abscess operation, got an operation on the same day. No out of pocket expenses due to government subsidy, health savings account and insurance.

Porcupineintherough · 12/11/2021 09:00

Careful @onlychildhamster you'll be saying that the nhs isnt the best healthcare system in the world next. Poor foreigners, they must all be jealous.

CatsArePeople · 12/11/2021 09:01

Kind of like how driving licences aren't penalising those who don't have one by not allowing them to drive, instead benefiting those who do have one, by allowing them to drive. Or benefiting those who possess a passport, by allowing them international travel, rather than penalising those who don't possess a passport.

Because driver's licence or passport application is just like an invasive medical procedure that has a side effect of death?

MarshaBradyo · 12/11/2021 09:02

@FrangipaniBlue

A lot of wrong information on this thread and pearl clutching from people who haven't bothered to take the time to understand the issue.

The Singapore government ARE NOT withholding treatment from anti vaxxers.

All treatment in Singapore is paid for, they don't have a free at point of service healthcare system.

They have simply told those who are vaccinated against covid that should they catch covid, they can have free treatment.

So it was free to all before this?

The change is that rather than wasn’t free but now is to vaccinated

OhWhyNot · 12/11/2021 09:07

What shall we add to the list smokers, drinkers. those who eat too much

I don’t want rules on who and who can not heave healthcare that is not the sort of healthcare system we should have ina country where we value highly personal freedom.

What about those who refuse who have mh diagnosis and are extremely paranoid, or those that are frail and fear having the vaccine as many are poorly after

It won’t happen here thankfully

SickAndTiredAgain · 12/11/2021 09:11

So it was free to all before this?

The change is that rather than wasn’t free but now is to vaccinated

@MarshaBradyo yes, at the start of the pandemic the government in Singapore said “we will cover the costs of any covid treatment” and now they’re saying they’ll just cover it for vaccinated people and unvaccinated people will pay in the same system everyone does every other illness.

pointythings · 12/11/2021 09:21

Singapore do not run a free (at the point of use) healthcare system. They are not penalising those who are unvaccinated, they are offering a perk to those who are vaccinated.

This, in a nutshell. I don't understand why people don't get this. Their system isn't like the UK system. Just to make myself clear - I would not wish to see anything like this introduced here because it would go against what the NHS stands for. I do however think it is logical and reasonable in the context of Singapore's existing system.

Because driver's licence or passport application is just like an invasive medical procedure that has a side effect of death?

Well, that's not at all dramatic antivaxxer rhetoric Hmm. You know full well that the chance of death from the vaccine is many orders of magnitude smaller than the chance of dying of COVID.

DumplingsAndStew · 12/11/2021 09:24

@CatsArePeople

Whilst I would disagree the vaccine is invasive", and remind that death is not a side effect, but a potential side effect, the choice is still there to opt out of having the vaccine.

But that also means you opt out of the free healthcare that is being provided to those who have had it.

MarshaBradyo · 12/11/2021 09:25

I guess when you have something free and it’s taken away it can feel different, as in your get used to a new system which then changes for you. What is the reaction in Singapore?

Also interesting that the unvaccinated will use insurance? But here private insurance won’t cover Covid.

Assume it’s not affordable here for insurance to cover it but there a different system allows it

DumplingsAndStew · 12/11/2021 09:25

@pointythings

Their system isn't like the UK system. Just to make myself clear - I would not wish to see anything like this introduced here because it would go against what the NHS stands for. I do however think it is logical and reasonable in the context of Singapore's existing system.

^ this

montysma1 · 12/11/2021 09:27

Injuring yourself in a dangerous sport does not spread your injury around, injuring yourself in a dangerous sport/risky activity does not endanger other people.
It is not at all the sane thing as refusing the vaccine which does endanger others.

Wannakisstheteacher · 12/11/2021 09:27

Totally fine - as long as type 2 diabetics have to pay for their treatment too, and no free care for smokers or alcoholics. Those people who have a child with a genetic issue when they knew they were a carrier should have to pay for everything their child needs as well. Extreme sport injuries should be self funded too, not the collective fault that you were too stupid to wear a helmet.

onlychildhamster · 12/11/2021 09:29

@OhWhyNot Everyone can access medical treatment in Singapore. They just have to 'pay' for it using their healthcare savings accounts, health insurance and will also get subsidies. Actually the people on that list of obese people, smoker, people with MH issues are more likely to be able to access medical care because the health service is not overwhelmed.

@Porcupineintherough Actually the first prime minister of Singapore was very impressed by the NHS in 1948 when he was studying in cambridge. He got a free pair of glasses and was very happy. When Singapore gained independence from the British in 1963 and separated from malaysia in 1965, he did consider a nhs type system for Singapore. But he realized we couldn't afford it as we were a poorer country than Egypt at that time. We could probably afford it now but Singaporeans have the 4th longest life expectancy in the world so i think that is a bad idea with an ageing population so I think instead higher income Singaporeans should just pay higher taxes and higher insurance premiums to ensure out of pocket expenses are kept at the minimum esp for the lower income. A german style healthcare system rather than a British one.

Indeed when nhs was conceived, people didn't live as long as they do now. We rely on nhs now so I wouldn't support disbanding it but we need reform so that it fits the 21st century.

Wannakisstheteacher · 12/11/2021 09:30

In fact maybe we could make a little camp for those with HIV and hepatitis etc just to make absolutely sure there is no way they can infect the rest of us. I’m sure there is a nice island somewhere we can dump them.

RufustheBadgeringReindeer · 12/11/2021 09:30

This, in a nutshell. I don't understand why people don't get this. Their system isn't like the UK system. Just to make myself clear - I would not wish to see anything like this introduced here because it would go against what the NHS stands for. I do however think it is logical and reasonable in the context of Singapore's existing system

Exactly

I think its a mix of people not reading the thread and/or jumping straight to ‘dreadful idea for UK’ without acknowledging that they are aware that they are very different systems

Sparklfairy · 12/11/2021 09:31

Havent RTFT but how does health care work in Singapore? Is health insurance a common thing most people have for things not covered by the government if its only partially "free"?

If so, I think it's an ok policy. Just like health insurance premiums are higher if you smoke/have pre existing conditions/whatever, the same should apply if you choose not to be vaccinated.

I don't agree with the same policy being applied here though, as the basis of the NHS was free healthcare for all, income or lifestyle choices or any other variable do not and should not come into it.

SickAndTiredAgain · 12/11/2021 09:32

@onlychildhamster How long do you think the funding of covid treatment for the vaccinated will last? I assume it won’t carry on indefinitely, it wouldn’t be logical to keep funding it in 5 years time, while not funding anything else.

DumplingsAndStew · 12/11/2021 09:35

@Wannakisstheteacher

Totally fine - as long as type 2 diabetics have to pay for their treatment too, and no free care for smokers or alcoholics. Those people who have a child with a genetic issue when they knew they were a carrier should have to pay for everything their child needs as well. Extreme sport injuries should be self funded too, not the collective fault that you were too stupid to wear a helmet.
They already all don't get free healthcare in Singapore.
IckyPop · 12/11/2021 09:36

@ColinTheKoala

No I don't think it's fair enough unless you extend it to obese people, those who abuse alcohol and drugs, those who drive recklessly and endanger their own and other peoples' lives - ultimately you could even extend it to those who break their legs ski-ing or twist an ankle running.

Where does it end? I can see the logic, but it's a very dangerous slippery slope. Either you provide care or you don't.

Yep this ^