Singapore not giving free treatment to anti-vaxxers

[Whose]

stops paying for Covid treatment for people who are unvaccinated by choice | The Independent" www.independent.co.uk/asia/southeast-asia/singapore-free-covid-treatment-unvaccinated-b1954077.html?amp

AIBU to think this fair enough?

Currently, unvaccinated persons make up a sizeable majority of those who require intensive inpatient care, and disproportionately contribute to the strain on our healthcare resources,

(Those who haven't had the vaccine because they medically can't are excluded from this)

@OnlyFoolsnMothers

SO BASICALLY ITS OK TO BE AN ANTIVAXER AS LONG AS YOU AREN'T POOR!!! Well this is a terrifying slope the world is going down, bullying the poor, moral judgements on who gets to work and who gets medical treatment. Everyone who supports this should be ashamed - and yes Im vaccinated and happy to be!

^^This with bells on.

What a terrible world we're living in.

@ColinTheKoala

No I don't think it's fair enough unless you extend it to obese people, those who abuse alcohol and drugs, those who drive recklessly and endanger their own and other peoples' lives - ultimately you could even extend it to those who break their legs ski-ing or twist an ankle running.

Where does it end? I can see the logic, but it's a very dangerous slippery slope. Either you provide care or you don't.

Being obese, drunk or high on drugs isn't contagious though.

Mreggsworth so why not just refuse all medical treatment to all unvaccinated then- they are saying its ok as long as you can pay. That's like ULEZ, if the issue is diesel cars just ban them, dont make them ok for the rich only.

And I'm sure much of our NHS treatment goes on reckless people: car crashes/ Heart attacks/ abortions when contraception is free....

Being obese, drunk or high on drugs isn't contagious though no but it takes up a health service that is already under strain, it can risk other people's lives if you drink drive etc

If we don’t offer free treatment to everyone who’s contributed to their own illness….we’d treat hardly anyone for free.

Singapore doesn’t treat anyone for free (except vaccinated people with covid).

I’d be extremely anti this being introduced in the UK and I don’t think it would be. But in Singapore, I assume this is just a step towards them eventually removing the free treatment for covid in general for everyone, which was brought in as an exceptional thing. I doubt they’ll continue funding treatment for this when they don’t fund anything else.

@MissTrip82

We arent talking about the UK though where all healthcare is free. I don't think this rule would work in the UK for that reason. This is about a country that made a free health care for covid exception, all they've done now is add in that they now must be vaccinated to access their free covid healthcare .Which is reasonable.

I don't know much about Singapore but it doesnt strike me as a place that would allow people to die and not have healthcare, I presume people would be treated just given a bill to deal with afterwards.

Which, is pretty much the scenario those without insurance or money to pay upfront would be in for any type of medical emergency, covid or not.

You are aware you can still carry covid when vaxxed?

The state I live in has just brought in that unvaccinated people are not allowed to visit hospitals unless it is end of life emergency or childbirth. It's really unclear if this means they are not allowed to 'visit' a hospital as an outpatient. Public hospital care is free here but it's also unclear if they are going to be banned from private hospitals.

I'm hoping the premier clarifies this and soon because I find the idea of people not being able to access care a bit horrifying. Even if I think they should be getting vaccinated.

@MissTrip82

I’m an ICU dr.

I find this disgusting. Entirely unethical.

If we don’t offer free treatment to everyone who’s contributed to their own illness….we’d treat hardly anyone for free.

There is also, IME, a very strong correlation indeed between poor levels of education and anti-vaxx views. I’m not interested in punishing people because they have had significantly less education that I’ve had.

The day I start judging patients like this is the day I leave medicine. I’ll know I’ve become a deformed soul.

The difference being that Singapore doesn't have universal healthcare. The two situations are in no way compariable.

Given that they don't have free healthcare as standard I think it's fair enough. Treatment is a benefit for people who have had the vaccine.

It wouldn't work with the NHS as it's built upon 'free at the point of delivery'

The majority of the population make choices that aren't ideal, we don't punish people for those decisions.

I do think there should be punishments including jail time and revoking of professional titles/qualifications for some of the people at the pinnacle of the misinformation that's out there. They have cost a lot of lives.

@Juniper68

You are aware you can still carry covid when vaxxed?

Yes, we know, not least because on every thread discussing COVID someone will pop up and smugly declare it as if it's some sort of trump card.

The vaccine significantly reduces the risk of catching, spreading and becoming seriously ill. That's pretty crucial.

@OnlyFoolsnMothers

This is about a country without an NHS. It's a country where you are expected to take some financial responsibility for your health, and has made one exception for covid, they are now back tracking as all that financial support is going to those who have decided not to take precautions to vaccinate themselves and it isnt a sustainable model for them.

@MissTrip82

I’m an ICU dr.

I find this disgusting. Entirely unethical.

If we don’t offer free treatment to everyone who’s contributed to their own illness….we’d treat hardly anyone for free.

There is also, IME, a very strong correlation indeed between poor levels of education and anti-vaxx views. I’m not interested in punishing people because they have had significantly less education that I’ve had.

The day I start judging patients like this is the day I leave medicine. I’ll know I’ve become a deformed soul.

Okay but you realise they don't have universal healthcare there anyway, right?

I do think there should be punishments including jail time and revoking of professional titles/qualifications for some of the people at the pinnacle of the misinformation that's out there. They have cost a lot of lives totally impossible, you'd have to trace back the source on the internet

I think treatment should still be provided for people even if they did not have the vaccine - the vaccine is not compulsory people are free to make their own decisions, we don't know the reason behind every person who has decided not to vaccinate. If it was decided not to vaccinate then this would set a precedent - so not treating those who drink alcohol for alcohol related illnesses, not treating those who are overweight where this has caused their illness

@twelly

I think treatment should still be provided for people even if they did not have the vaccine - the vaccine is not compulsory people are free to make their own decisions, we don't know the reason behind every person who has decided not to vaccinate. If it was decided not to vaccinate then this would set a precedent - so not treating those who drink alcohol for alcohol related illnesses, not treating those who are overweight where this has caused their illness

But there they treat no one for free, aside from covid which was an exception.

I was referring to this policy being adopted in the UK - Singapore makes its own rules and therefore the system is different

@MissTrip82

I’m an ICU dr.

I find this disgusting. Entirely unethical.

If we don’t offer free treatment to everyone who’s contributed to their own illness….we’d treat hardly anyone for free.

There is also, IME, a very strong correlation indeed between poor levels of education and anti-vaxx views. I’m not interested in punishing people because they have had significantly less education that I’ve had.

The day I start judging patients like this is the day I leave medicine. I’ll know I’ve become a deformed soul.

They don't have universal free healthcare in Singapore. There is no NHS out there. You are missing that point entirely. With the system they have they have given free health care for covid treatment from the beginning. Now they are saying you won't get it free if you are unvaccinated. You will still get treatment, they are not withholding treatment, you will just have to pay or use your insurance.

I don't think anti-vaxxers should be denied treatment as such, but they certainly shouldn't be prioritised. I.e. if there's an anti-vax covid patient and a heart attack victim both waiting for an ICU bed, then I think the heart attack victim should get the bed. Likewise for waiting for an ambulance, etc.

I don't think anti-vaxxers should be denied treatment as such, but they certainly shouldn't be prioritised. I.e. if there's an anti-vax covid patient and a heart attack victim both waiting for an ICU bed, then I think the heart attack victim should get the bed. Likewise for waiting for an ambulance, etc what if the heart attack victim was a red meat red wine every night, no exercise paedophile and the non vaxxer had a heart condition that made them fearful of the enlarged heart link with the vaccine hence they hadnt had it?

I just can't get excited about the plight of anti vaxxers who wilfully chose to endanger others

SusieBob I'm far from smug. Double vaxxed only because of work. I had covid last year. Dh and ds2 lived with me and didn't catch it. So many more of the same.

I had terribly high bp after the second dose. Am still not well and that was April. So many more tales of injured people by vaccine. I have head pressure now. Am eventually seeing an ENT consultant but doubt that can help.

There's no come back of course as the vaxx companies are safely protected.

This is just the tip of the iceberg.

Within the context of Singapore's health system I think this is entirely fair. The norm is that you pay for healthcare. COVID treatment was made an exception. I think that if you as a citizen refuse to do your bit without a valid medical reason, given the system is what it is, you have to accept the consequences.

I wouldn't want to see this brought in here, because we have free at the point of need healthcare. I have no time for antivaxxers, I think they are ignorant at best, but we should not change the UK system to penalise them.

@twelly

I was referring to this policy being adopted in the UK - Singapore makes its own rules and therefore the system is different

But that's not what this thread is about, and it's not something that has been suggested for the UK

If I recall, Singapore have an interesting healthcare model. Each person gets a number of points allocated each year and each GP visit etc costs a certain number of points. When you’ve used them up you have to pay. I think family members can transfer points to each other. I have no idea how it works for disability or cancer treatment, but I think the principle is sound - would help the huge number of wasted appointments etc. Want to do rock climbing as a hobby - no problem, but if you’re a heavy strain in the health service as a result of injuries then you’ll be paying for it

I like the personal responsibility it encourages