Singapore not giving free treatment to anti-vaxxers

[Whose]

stops paying for Covid treatment for people who are unvaccinated by choice | The Independent" www.independent.co.uk/asia/southeast-asia/singapore-free-covid-treatment-unvaccinated-b1954077.html?amp

AIBU to think this fair enough?

Currently, unvaccinated persons make up a sizeable majority of those who require intensive inpatient care, and disproportionately contribute to the strain on our healthcare resources,

(Those who haven't had the vaccine because they medically can't are excluded from this)

This is about unvaccinated people in s'pore I think?

Just checking.

Other self inflicted things-

Sports injuries
Motorbike crashes (car as well?)
More?

When people say they approve of what a totally different country has done. Without any context. Then realistically to do the thing here it would need the same context. Socially etc etc.

Otherwise it's just random. I'll take this law from s'pore but not that one. That one I'll have from Brazil. Etc etc.

Is this just a thread to say unvaccinated people in UK should be turned away from NHS. If covid/ if any self inflicted thing/ for anything etc?

@PurpleOkapi

And before anyone gets too smug, I'd include pregnancy on the list of voluntarily-assumed risks.

Absolutely stupid position to take.

The society you would create would be monstrous.

There's a fair few who need urgent counselling on this thread, they are badly fucked up people.

This is interesting. Seems the govt approach has a big part to play in the current infection levels

'In May, Singapore Prime Minister Lee Hsien Loong introduced the government’s plan to ‘live with the virus’ and transition away from a ‘COVID-zero’ approach.

“Our aim must be to keep the community as a whole safe while accepting that some people may get infected every now and then,” Lee said in May, announcing that Singapore would gradually open up internally and then to foreign visitors.'

Rrhuth don't worry about it.

Threads come up on MN saying people who are xyz should be refused NHS treatment regularly.

I suppose if nearly due. The approach would be to do a CS to get the baby and leave it at that in terms of any medical assistance for the mother.

@CheeseMmmm

Rrhuth don't worry about it.

Threads come up on MN saying people who are xyz should be refused NHS treatment regularly.

Yes, I know - and every time I state that it is a disgusting point of view because the view of the dysfunctional and messed up must be challenged.

No well person withholds care. You have to be damaged as a person to contemplate leaving people without treatment.

If anyone is thinking of leaving people without treatment, they need emotional support.

Well sure but a lot of people take a view that they deserve whatever and that group over there don't. About loads of things.

@CheeseMmmm

Well sure but a lot of people take a view that they deserve whatever and that group over there don't. About loads of things.

yes, I am aware.

It was quite weird of you to tell me not to 'worry' tbh, this is a chat forum where the threads would be pretty empty if people didn't post their views.

I just wanted to empathise really. Sorry if came across wrong.

There's also a lot of contrarians/ wind up merchants about.

But obv didn't come across well so apologies.

@CheeseMmmm

I just wanted to empathise really. Sorry if came across wrong.

There's also a lot of contrarians/ wind up merchants about.

But obv didn't come across well so apologies.

Oh I see! No I didn't get that but maybe I was reading it wrong! I am perhaps in a chippy mood

No harm done I hope? - sorry

No probs. These threads are always shocking.

I don't think anti-vaxxers should be denied treatment as such, but they certainly shouldn't be prioritised. I.e. if there's an anti-vax covid patient and a heart attack victim both waiting for an ICU bed, then I think the heart attack victim should get the bed. Likewise for waiting for an ambulance, etc

What if the heart attack victim smokes? Or drinks heavily? Or eats a lot of butter? Or is obese-?

I don't think anti-vaxxers should be denied treatment as such, but they certainly shouldn't be prioritised. I.e. if there's an anti-vax covid patient and a heart attack victim both waiting for an ICU bed, then I think the heart attack victim should get the bed. Likewise for waiting for an ambulance, etc

Get help! Something has gone wrong in your life, I'm sorry you've rotted inside...

People should read the earlier posts on the thread that explain the context of this - what the healthcare system is like in Singapore:

You do have to pay for medical care - for accidents, obesity-, smoking- alcohol- genetic- related conditions. But for citizens this care is subsidized by the govt. covid was an exception - where the govt provided free care (understandable at the beginning of the epidemic as they wanted people to come forward, isolate and be treated rather than spreading it at work and home). Now (after track and trace, vaccines, treatments, testing have come in) govt is removing free care - which brings it in line with all the other conditions (like if you choose not to have hep b or measles vaccine and you contract them, you have to pay for treatment - which is subsidized - as covid treatment would be).

The only remaining exception is free covid treatment for fully vaccinated people - you can argue that this might be to encourage anxious people to go to work and stimulate the economy.

It’s a different system from the U.K. and has it’s plus and minus points. I mean U.K. had a period early in covid when the health system was overwhelmed and people were prevented from seeing dying loved ones in hospital. Now ambulances can queue a long time outside hospitals. The pandemic was better controlled in Singapore and I don’t really think they had the same extent of the problem.

The fact that people think this is an ok idea in a country with socialized medicine is shocking and shows how bad things are.

Singapore has a totally different medical approach, and notably they do not believe in universal medical care. They have quite a few ideas about freedoms and equality that wouldn't really go over in most western countries - or at least they wouldn't have until very recently.

This is exactly the kind of idea that discredits those trying to encourage everyone to vaccinate, because it suggests that the are authoritarian elitists who have no qualms about deciding what kind of people deserve social care.

@Coyoacan

Here in Mexico, there has been no coercion whatsoever and there is a very high uptake of vaccines and nearly everyone uses facemasks.

I think the very coercion itself creates resistance.

Very much so.

Absolutely stupid position to take.

The society you would create would be monstrous.

Most of the world doesn't provide free healthcare for pregnant women, or for anyone else. Is that half of the world "monstrous"? Is everyone in it a "badly fucked up person in urgent need of counseling"?

If the rule is that those who choose to take a known medical risk because they believe it's worth it forfeits any right to free treatment should that risk materialize, there shouldn't be an exception for "but I want a baby!" Funny how your feelings are so different when we're talking about something you wanted and chose to do.

If you think that rule doesn't sound so appealing when you realise it might also apply to you and your own choices, then own it. If you're too much of mentally stunted child to understand that your feelings aren't special and don't exempt you from the same rules you think should apply to others, you don't need to be reproducing, anyway.

@PurpleOkapi to be fair, part of the reason pregnancy is sometimes treated a bit differently (eg free prescriptions in this country) is that the baby did not choose it. And the baby benefits from a mother who takes necessary medication, has check ups etc.
I don’t know if any country does treat pregnancy massively differently to other causes of needing medical help, but I think there’d be an argument for it in any country where children are treated differently to adults (eg a country where children get free medical care but adults don’t). Because medical care for the mother is medical care for the baby.

@SickAndTiredAgain

That's fair. I supposed I'd be willing to limit that to post-partum recovery and complications.

They are being refused FREE treatment, not being refused treatment. Most treatment in Singapore is paid for by patients since they have compulsory health insurance. It isn't the same as the UK so there is no need to dramatise it.

@PurpleOkapi

I think this little rant If you're too much of mentally stunted child to understand that your feelings aren't special and don't exempt you from the same rules you think should apply to others, you don't need to be reproducing, anyway. was aimed at me.

I don't think any rules should apply differently to me than they do to others. I don't think healthcare in the UK should be withheld from people without vaccines, or pregnant women, or smokers, or obese people, or whatever.

I'm in Singapore. This probably also needs to be looked at in a broader context. We are over 90-95% of eligible population vaccinated. Still only in groups of 2, curfews, most travel prohibited etc.

If you are unvaccinated here and over the age of 12 then you cannot:

• go to a shopping mall
• go to a cafe or restaurant
• go to any attractions (eg cinema)
• go to a gym/pool etc
• visit a care home
• do team sports

As soon as 5-12 year olds are approved for vaccination these measures will apply to them too. Probably this month.

From Jan 1st you cannot go to your workplace.

And now, from Dec 8th your Covid bills are not covered if you are unvaccinated by choice or have been abroad. Worth noting that people can still access government subsidies and local insurances.

There’s a lot of frothing on this thread from people who are completely overlooking that Singapore has a totally different healthcare system, which is subsidised but involves insurance and a user pays system. It is NOT comparable with the NHS. The Singaporean government has been offering all COVID treatment for free up until now, but now will only offer that free treatment to vaccinated people. There is no suggestion antivaxxers won’t be treated, only that they will have to pay for their treatment, as they would for any other illness/treatment.

Read @onlychildhamster s several informative posts which explains how the system works from someone who actually knows.

What if the heart attack victim smokes? Or drinks heavily? Or eats a lot of butter? Or is obese-?

Are people wilfully ignoring the fact that you don’t pass on smoke related illness or heart attacks. You don’t risk giving your doctor or nurse cancer if you end up in hospital ffs.

It’s a stupid lazy comparison.

I think a lot of people are overlooking that the vaccine is much better at reducing your own personal risk and isn’t so great at preventing infection/transmission - the things that put others are risk.