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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Singapore not giving free treatment to anti-vaxxers

270 replies

Whose · 10/11/2021 20:04

stops paying for Covid treatment for people who are unvaccinated by choice | The Independent" www.independent.co.uk/asia/southeast-asia/singapore-free-covid-treatment-unvaccinated-b1954077.html?amp

AIBU to think this fair enough?

Currently, unvaccinated persons make up a sizeable majority of those who require intensive inpatient care, and disproportionately contribute to the strain on our healthcare resources,

(Those who haven't had the vaccine because they medically can't are excluded from this)

OP posts:
ilovesooty · 11/11/2021 15:31

@Caryfakes

I'm vaccinated but I feel like screaming this on these threads- even if you are vaccinated you can still transmit the virus. So by having the virus you are only protecting yourself.
Here we go again...
MaxNormal · 11/11/2021 15:33

For actual fucks sake. I'm reporting this shitty, divisive thread.

ilovesooty · 11/11/2021 15:36

@MaxNormal

For actual fucks sake. I'm reporting this shitty, divisive thread.
It wouldn't be so "shitty and divisive" if people didn't spend so much time getting excited and judging other countries and their policies without even being in full possession of the facts.
Caryfakes · 11/11/2021 15:38

Caryfakes
I'm vaccinated but I feel like screaming this on these threads- even if you are vaccinated you can still transmit the virus. So by having the virus you are only protecting yourself. 
Here we go again...

Go on then. Please explain to me. As I said, I'm vaccinated but the vitriol directed at those who can't or don't want to is unbelievable and quite frightening. Divide and rule.
So how is forcing people to take a vaccine and withdrawing rights to those who don't comply acceptable in a civilised society?
So

Porcupineintherough · 11/11/2021 15:41

Withdrawing free health care isnt the same as withdrawing rights @Caryfakes. Free health care isnt actually a human right.

ilovesooty · 11/11/2021 15:45

This thread is about Singapore and I don't think I have to continue to discuss a point which has no relevance to this specific thread, other than to say Singapore has the right to make its own choices re covid policy.

TractorAndHeadphones · 11/11/2021 15:46

@Porcupineintherough

Withdrawing free health care isnt the same as withdrawing rights *@Caryfakes*. Free health care isnt actually a human right.
Also the decision to vaccinate doesn’t just protect you. The probability and severity of infection varies depending on viral load. So being unvaccinated means that you’re more likely to transmit enough of the virus to actually infect other people. Public health policy relies on enough people taking up the vaccines and if everyone was an anti-vaxxer it wouldn’t work.
Cornishclio · 11/11/2021 15:48

Surely when health services are under strain as they are here and possibly in other countries we do need to make difficult decisions about where resources are used. Anti Vaxers make a conscious decision not to minimise their risk of catching Covid and passing it on to others. If this horrible disease could be eradicated by everyone who was able to have vaccine having it I think that should be encouraged. If that means refusing health care to those who won't be vaccinated then so be it. Certain groups of others like the very obese are already being refused hip operations and fertility treatment and some elderly patients refused ops on grounds they would not survive a GA so there is already a degree of selection by the NHS. In the long term our NHS is unsustainable under the current model without much more money being ploughed in. So higher taxes or selective healthcare.

Noonoo8589 · 11/11/2021 15:56

Most people do pay for the treatment anyway through tax and ni contributions don’t they? So no it’s not fair enough.
Not even people who choose not to contribute to the system get refused treatment.

anon12345678901 · 11/11/2021 15:56

Yes this is completely fair. Singapore's health system is not like the NHS. People do have to pay for their own medical treatment, it's fair to say if individuals will not take a vaccine to help to protect themselves and reduce transmission, they can pay for their bills if they end up in hospital with COVID-19.

elenacampana · 11/11/2021 15:57

[quote Porcupineintherough]@KylieKoKo when was the last time the health service ground to a halt, and ICU was overflowing because people were falling out of trees?[/quote]
Exactly.

onlychildhamster · 11/11/2021 16:01

@Noonoo8589 60% of Singaporeans pay no tax. And there is no national insurance in Singapore. Instead there is CPF which is a mandatory savings scheme- it covers pension, purchase of property and healthcare with 3 separate accounts. 20% of income (there is a cap) is deducted every month , in Addition to 17% from employer. For healthcare, this roughly translates to 8.5%-10% of monthly income. Each citizen has their own individual account and this can be inherited once the account holder has passed on. Monies can only be withdrawn for the above 3 purposes. CPF is very important to Singaporeans.

mustlovegin · 11/11/2021 16:01

I don't agree with this policy. Specially for vaccines that are so new

lemmein · 11/11/2021 16:03

And here it is, the frog is boiling 🙄

The lengths people will go to to punish those that have a differing opinion is really quite scary.

As the vaccine wanes after 12 weeks the punishments are illogical too, unless we are saying yes to12 week boosters?

Vaccination comes down to trust - trust in the government, trust in the scientists; if that trust isn't there maybe we should address the reasons why instead of punishing and ridiculing those that question them.

Maybe we should go full China's social credit system - you can gain points by being good little citizens, you'll need a certain number to gain free healthcare. So extra points for every bit of exercise you do, but if you visit maccy ds regularly then nope, off you pop to die. Extra points if you willingly subscribe to medical experiments....etc.

I expect quite a few on here would love that Confused

S0upertrooper · 11/11/2021 16:10

The Singapore govt have been very strict with covid and in the early days of the pandemic, they managed to keep the numbers and deaths very low. The population is now 85% vaccinated. This new rule about charging for treatment for covid for those who choose to remain unvaccinated is not surprising for Singapore.

Some facts people may not know about covid in Singapore: until very recently if you tested positive, you were automatically taken into a govt facility, even if you were asymptomatic. No exceptions.

You can only dine out in 2s but from this week 5 people from the same household can now eat out together but they have to provide official proof of address. No music in restaurants (you might have to talk louder to be heard and spread the virus) No talking on public transport for the same reason. Only 2 visitors per day allowed in your home. You can only visit 1 other house per day. Groups of only 2 people allowed to walk together outside. Masks still worn outside unless for strenuous exercise. 'Covid Ambassadors' patrol streets, restaurants, malls and public transport to enforce the rules and hefty fines are imposed including removal of work permits and immediate repatriation. Until very recently, expats had to get govt permission to re enter the country, many families have been separated for 2 years.

The country has only recently opened up to fully vaccinated tourists from some countries but they have to arrive on designated fully vaccinated flights. These tourists can't eat out with their family because technically they do not reside at the same address, they are only visiting. Imagine your mum flying half way round the world, you haven't seen her for 2 years and you can't take her out for dinner.

The general consensus is that the removal of free covid treatment to the unvaccinated will encourage uptake and allow a relaxation of restrictions, helping people to live a more 'normal' life. It's estimated that costs are on average $30,000 SD per hospitalised patient.

MrsSchadenfreude · 11/11/2021 16:14

An organisation we work with (not in U.K.) is sacking all unvaccinated staff as of Monday. If you haven’t had both vaccinations by then, it’s bye bye. They said they are willing to take on a legal challenge.

onlychildhamster · 11/11/2021 16:17

@S0upertrooper is that 30k before or after medisave/medishield/subsidy deduction..

Yes it is a hard situation. My own wedding in Singapore had been postponed for a year because of this. I haven't been back since 2019!

NoDecentHandlesLeft · 11/11/2021 16:32

@SockFluffInTheBath

I think people need to know that there is no NHS in Singapore and free Covid treatment was brought in as a stand-alone. That being the case I think it’s fair.
If this is the case, then it's fair. I think if a country provides free at the point of use healthcare they are n dangerous grounds- smokers and people who abuse alcohol etc may take up many more resources than a young and otherwise healthy person who has declined to be vaccinated.
Coyoacan · 11/11/2021 16:40

The "anti-vaxxers" are a useful, albeit self-selecting, control group. If the only people who are not vaccinated are people with medical reasons, that will not help if we want to see the pros and cons of vaccinating against covid.

Kajjjer93 · 11/11/2021 16:41

Only if you also remove health care treatment for those who are obese,smoke, drink alcohol, participate in dangerous sports, take recreational drugs….. get my point??

Also getting the vaccine doesn’t stop you spreading Covid.

I’ve had the vaccines btw and I am a nurse. I just think people should have a choice in what they put in there bodies.

SusieBob · 11/11/2021 16:51

"Vaccination comes down to trust - trust in the government, trust in the scientists; if that trust isn't there maybe we should address the reasons why instead of punishing and ridiculing those that question them."

You and I trust the "scientists" and "government" every day; why is the COVID vaccine such a special case?

The fact is, if a person wants to enjoy the benefits of living in society that sometimes comes with responsibilities. If you live in the UK the fact that we are not still in lockdown is entirely down to most people going out, being responsible and getting vaccinated. If that person refuses to get vaccinated despite the massive weight of evidence outlining the benefits of doing and finds that some benefits of society are closed off to them that is a choice that person has made and that is entirely on them.

And finally, can we please stop with this "Oh but you can still get infected when you've had the vaccine" shite. We know you can but the point is that the vaccine does significantly reduce the risk of both illness and transmission, and that is absolutely fucking vital.

Mynameismargot · 11/11/2021 17:05

@Caryfakes

It's actually very frightening to see how society is becoming further divided and the hate that is being directed to those that do not conform.
Ì don't understand what that has to do with anything? Unvaccinated people are putting disproportionate strain on healthcare systems around the world. This is being done I presume to try and get them to cop on so that they will have the resources to help everyone that needs it. When hospitals are full of people ill from covid that could easily be prevented by a jab these people are affecting everyone and I don't blame governments for trying to get them to pull their heads out of their arses.
Namenic · 11/11/2021 17:15

Covid is tricky for all govt’s to manage. I would say on the whole Singapore has done well (though it’s restrictions on migrant workers have been harsh and could be improved).

At least they accept that some restrictions need to remain and tighten and release them to ensure the health system is not overwhelmed - unlike the queues of ambulances and growing waiting lists in U.K.

MarshaBradyo · 11/11/2021 17:18

Blimey bold move. Wonder what happens if you can’t pay.. will read article

MajorCarolDanvers · 11/11/2021 17:21

I'm not sure that people should be denied medical treatment because they are stupid but I do have a lot of sympathy for this decision.