thinking its now time to get super tough on dog ownership?

[adam7485]

after what has happened in wales to that poor little boy i can't help thinking its time to not jus bring back dog licences but before you buy a dog you should have to take an exam to prove that you can look after it properly. not only that but if your dog attacks someone not only should it be taken away from you but from that moment on your banned from ever owning dogs. anyone agree with me?

What should be law is a dog license linked to insurance at a minimum public liability insurance which is cheap to buy
No insurance / licence - no dog

We also know when my dog is going to bite
You would have to be blind and stupid not to read his body language so we can avoid it
But so many people don’t understand dog body language and carry on till the dog attacks
They also get the dog that they like rather than a dog that fits into their lifestyle
So a lazy family with no time get a springer spaniel
That dog gets no walks and gets fat or gets bored and destructive

[quote Yayaga]@icedcoffees
In Belgium they set up an animal police division, the UK could do something similar. People love animals in this country so maybe it could be funded by donations. You would enforce it by having all gumtree/local sales made totally illegal so the only place people would be getting their animals from are registered breeders or shelters who would apply.for the license for the buyer so there would be a log?
www.thebulletin.be/belgium-gets-official-animal-police[/quote]
Sadly I don't think it will work.

I got two of my kittens from local farms - the adverts were cardboard, handwritten sides at the side of the road. They cost £10 each.

I know people who sell their litters via word of mouth. And people still buy collie/sheepdog/terrier pups off the local farmer too.

There are already laws in place that say breeders have to register but nobody enforces it so why would anyone bother to enforce any new laws that came into place?

It sounds defeatist but I work in the animal industry and there's no funds to support anything like this and most owners, though well-intentioned, have no clue about the law and their responsibilities as pet owners or breeders. None whatsoever.

Absolutely dog licences.

It’s unbelievably difficult to get someone banned at the moment, with organisations like the rspca having to go through lengthy court cases - and be accused of wasting money - to get people who neglect their dogs banned. These are often going to be the same people to those who allow their dogs to attack.

It’s better for dogs to require licences and better for people. Anyone who calls themselves a dog lover should should support licences as it prefers dogs going to bad homes - as much (obviously some will try to get around it but it’ll help)

I think something needs to be in place. I love dogs and there are a lot of good owners out there, however, there's a lot of bad owners too. I was walking my dog on her lead a couple of days ago and a teenage boy was out with his large Doberman puppy, it's ears had been cropped and tail docked - to look intimidating Im assuming. He really had trouble controlling it as it dragged him towards us barking. I think the dog just wanted to say hello to my dog, but it was really intimidating. Soon the dog will be stronger and I dread to think what will happen if it's not properly trained, especially if it wants to approach a dog which isn't good with other dogs. I feel so sorry for the dogs who aren't properly trained by lazy owners.

@icedcoffees
That's a shame :( I defer to your practical experience in the field. Maybe we could look at giving vets more powers/rights to flag and launch processes. So for example, if a dog is brought in to a vets currently, and the vet suspects that it is not being cared for properly, maybe the vet should have the power to alert the police and that the police be FORCED to investigate?

I agree that a licence would be good. I don't think a test is a bad idea either. Everyone has to pass a theory test for driving.

What would be even better would be for the RSPCA to have more power to remove neglected or untrained dogs. I'm not sure how much has changed since I work in a vets in 2005 but I still remember being appalled at how little they could do. The worst was a young couple who had a staffie who weighed half of what he should. He was skin and bones when I saw him. The couple had to come in and have him weighed weekly and were given free food. They walked in with no shame and would joke about us spoiling him with all the free food. They kept their appointments for 4 weeks then stopped coming. Apparently they were busy. We were open 8am-7pm six days a week and they were a 15 minute walk away. It was a month or two before they were forced to come back and in the meantime the dog had lost weight again. He still wasn't taken away.

@MrsCardone

In my class of 22 children, six are in the process of rehoming their lockdown dogs.

Yet we’ve been trying to get a rescue dog for over a year and can’t get one. The shelters are empty!

It’s one of those ‘only on MN’ things. I’m not saying the above poster is lying but MN has been insisting since March 2020 that people are rehoming lockdown puppies, shelters are full - but it doesn’t really tally.

Dog licences are good in theory but crap in practice. Now a leash law would be much more practical along with more dog wardens (their are only 2 for my entire county) with the power to give on the spot fines for no lead and/or dog shit. Also harsher sentences for having a dangerous out of control dog. With life long bans for anyone who breaks these laws and jail time if they breach the ban

Since the rush for puppies that came with the first lockdown it's really noticeable to me how many poorly trained dogs and clueless owners there are around. I'm nearly 60, have had dogs all my life and can't remember ever being so aware of irresponsible owners, crazy dogs and so much dog crap everywhere when I'm out walking mine.

I’ve always lived with dogs. Currently a 3 year old spaniel and 1 year old labrador. I’ve rescued for over 40 years and fostered but young grandchildren are here often and I don’t want unpredictable dogs around them, so I bought mine from reputable breeders. I’m fortunate, I new the breeders so felt confident as is possible about health and temperament.

I’m fed up with the huge numbers of untrained dogs running about, off lead at our park and woodland walks. My young dog is back on lead as adolescence meant his recall isn’t 100%. Im teaching him to walk past children and other dogs. Yes - silly parents let their children run up to my dogs. The little spaniel sits to be stroked, mega pup would knock on over wagging his tail. Yes - many owners believe dogs need to meet nose to nose to socialise - no they don’t

Many of the lockdown pups are being sold on the internet, rather than handed to breed specific or other charities to be fostered, assessed and adopted. There’s a big anti spay/neuter group. There are many people breeding their dogs to sell the pups at ridiculous prices.

I wish licences would improve things but don’t think they would. No one should be able to breed and sell pups without a council licence. Restrict the numbers of litters. Close all puppy farms. Ban the import of dogs from Romania etc. Street dogs from Eastern Europe, the med readily struggle to live in family homes.

I can't see them banning off lead dogs.

I agree but we wouldn't even need to discuss it if some dogs owners were not so irresponsible. The example of the off lead dog and the peacocks above is exasperating. If you're a halfway decent owner you would keep your dog on a lead around other animals and children, you would also understand what triggers the prey drive of your dog. A dog chasing its prey does not stop for traffic or other hazards, is so dangerous.

Off lead walking is, as you say, very good for a dogs mental and physical well being but it needs to be done in an appropriate location and your dog need to have decent recall.

@Thatsplentyjack

About a year an a half ago I would have said it was unnecessary, but now I have to agree. I have a dog and he's older now and I am utterly sick of him being attacked by bigger dogs. And I mean full on attacked. Also the absolute idiot who let his dog on his stretchy lead (taking up the entire path, him at one side, dog at the other about 10 feet ahead of him) knock me over flat on to my 6 months pregnant belly, banged my head AND landed in dog shit.

Agreed. Also utterly sick of our dogs being attacked, invariably by one of two unpleasant breeds. On one occasion, walking past a harbour side pub on the south coast, the bloke with the vest and tats let go of the chain his dog was on. It attacked our spoodle, DH got knocked off the harbour wall and ended in hospital with 3 broken ribs. DD aged 12 witnessed this traumatic event. Several other unprovoked attacks over the years as have also most of my friends with dogs experienced. One of their dogs died. I'm now terrified of Rotties and Staffies, invariably described as "lovely" by the owners. I would have a sliding scale of licence fees, more expensive in urban areas, AND compulsory chipping and insurance. The cost of insurance for these "lovely" breeds might just deter people.

[quote Yayaga]@icedcoffees
That's a shame :( I defer to your practical experience in the field. Maybe we could look at giving vets more powers/rights to flag and launch processes. So for example, if a dog is brought in to a vets currently, and the vet suspects that it is not being cared for properly, maybe the vet should have the power to alert the police and that the police be FORCED to investigate?[/quote]
I agree that would be lovely but so many owners don't take their pets to the vet in the first place unfortunately!

It's complicated and not an easy issue to solve I don't think.

Yes - many owners believe dogs need to meet nose to nose to socialise - no they don’t

This 100%, it's bloody infuriating how little knowledge people have about a living thing they are responsible for.

I suspect that the puppies being rehomed aren’t actually in rescues but are being advertised on the local gumtree/Pets4Homes etc so the owners can recoup a bit of the cash they spent.

Rehoming a dog doesn’t equate to responsibly taking it to a rescue. It means getting rid of it in whichever way you see fit, be that by selling it on or giving it to the neighbour/your cousin’s mate’s brother’s niece….

I think Northern Ireland still has dog licences?

Anyway, totally pointless. Responsible owners will buy the licence and train their dogs, just as they are doing presently.

Irresponsible numpties will buy dogs from dubious breeders, not train them and keep them in unsuitable conditions, just as they are doing presently.

@FOJN

Yes - many owners believe dogs need to meet nose to nose to socialise - no they don’t

This 100%, it's bloody infuriating how little knowledge people have about a living thing they are responsible for.

Yep.

See the current doghouse thread where people are insisting that owners who don't let their dogs greet every single other dog they come across are irresponsible

If you look at the stats of people killed by dogs, they are mainly pitbull/bulldog type breeds.

Just need to ban them completely.

I am and always have had dogs. I prefer dogs to humans. There used to be licences - you bought them at the post office. There used to be dog wardens, there aren't many now. The problem is not the dogs it's the human race

Yes to mandatory licensing, with resourced enforcement.

It’s true that I suspect a fair few dogs are rehomed via Facebook / gumtree etc, but the insistence on here has always been very much of the ‘shelters will be overflowing.’

I think the onus needs to be more on breeders as well as owners. Pedigree breeds are rife with inbreeding and health problems. Look at the poor French bull dog. Fifteen years ago it was in a much better position but thanks to the trend caused by programs like Modern Family it's now estimated that only 1 in 20 dogs is actually even remotely healthy. They are plagued with very serious health issues. This is from inbreeding to fulfil customers orders, not betterment of the breed.

So I think the kennel club has a duty of care to only register healthy fully tested ( varies depending on the breed) dogs and de register any dogs that have issues. Refuse to register litters that are inbred. Then the micro chip companies need to make it so that the breeders details (name, dob, address , licence number etc) are stored permanently on the microchip and only changeable if that person dies. If a dog you bred ends up homeless then you should have to be notified and be responsible for it. Either take it back or pay for the kennel stay until it finds a new home. This will help breeders to fully vet future homes and make sure they aren't just breeding to order . And I do believe in dog licensing. I think a £10 online test (or possibly in a library etc) that has loads of information on it about inbreeding, health issues, training, feeding, when a vet is needed etc) and then a quiz at the end to show you have a basic level of competency . Only then do you get your license. I also think a very simple obligatory subscription every month to a vets would be good to cover vaccinations, wormer and flea treatment on an annual basis. This would improve a lot of dogs lives and make people think twice about how "cheap" a pet is.

But I also think cats should be house pets /catio only and should be banned from roaming. The amount of dead cats on the road by me is horrific not to mention the volumes of cat shit from the local moggies on my drive way and front garden.

I have a dog and would be happy with licensing but tbh such a measure may not have helped in this case. People with a mind to it will still go down the illegal route. Illegal breeds imported, bred secretly here, and just plain license dodging.
So yes, we can introduce legislation but I don't think you can legislate against bad people.

I don’t know what the answer is, I do know that the dogs that cause the biggest issues at our local park are rescue dogs that have been imported, maybe stopping that would be a start.

To give an example there is a middle aged couple who had never owned a dog before, they took on a six month old street dog from Greece, at least they were told it was six months but the rescue had no way of knowing. They were told it would be a medium sized dog, it has grown taller than a Labrador and is extremely strong. Unfortunately it is also reactive to dogs and people in the last few months it has bitten one man and lunged at another who narrowly avoided being bitten on the face. This is despite it always being on a lead.

I was taken off my feet last winter as these inexperienced owners kept it on a long lead and allowed it to run behind me, I had a deep black bruise on my hip for several weeks which would have certainly meant a broken hip for many older people who use the park. Many of us tried as experienced dog owners to suggest training classes etc when the dog first arrived, but they said they had been advised that they had to do that as a couple and as the husband worked in London they couldn’t do that.

Yesterday he lunged at two dogs including one of mine, despite knowing what he is like his owner still wants to come over and join our group of little dogs.

One dog, one park but as PP said a combination of inexperienced owners and the wrong breed, but I think street dogs with no history has increased the likelihood of that combination.

Naturally we don't know the details of this most recent case in Wales. My points are more general