thinking its now time to get super tough on dog ownership?

[adam7485]

after what has happened in wales to that poor little boy i can't help thinking its time to not jus bring back dog licences but before you buy a dog you should have to take an exam to prove that you can look after it properly. not only that but if your dog attacks someone not only should it be taken away from you but from that moment on your banned from ever owning dogs. anyone agree with me?

Also, adopting animals from abroad should be banned. There are enough animals here that need homes. Yes some rescues are too strict, but better to be too strict than too lax.

Do you feel like that about humans who come here for a better life too?

It's already the law that dogs have chips so they can be traced.
Some people own/breed aggressive dogs for illegal activities (I.e. dog fighting or deliberately to use as a weapon)
The police/Council already have legislation in place to deal with aggressive dogs.

In this case it looks like the existing legislation wasn't used (either noone reported the dog even though it was a menace, or there weren't resources to deal with the report)
I don't think licensing would have made any difference at all.

I like the German way. You need a licence to breed dogs, are limited as to how many litters your dogs may produce each year and there are inspections regularly. You can't breed a litter unless you can prove you have homes waiting (which is brilliant).

If you aren't a registered breeder your dog must be spayed or neutered to avoid irresponsible breeding.

Owners must have licences (and these are checked). It all sounds so much safer!

@rrhuth

I suspect dog licences would be electorally popular.

I'm a doggy person really, we don't have one now but all my family do and I grew up with them, but many dogs are a menace. I'm sick of dog owners not being reasonable.

The situation has got out of hand, both at the low level end (dog shit, annoying behaviour) and the serious level (bites/attacks).

When there were dog licences the kind of person who owned the dangerous dogs didn't bother with them and there was little done about it.

@adam7485 what is a licence going to do ?

This is another terrible and avoidable tragedy. Children should never be left unsupervised with dogs. Three other cases spring to mind about children being killed when they were left unsupervised with a dog, it's just dangerous. I'd bet that dog had never been appropriately (not all training is good training) trained or adequately exercised.

I think a dog license would have to be more than a piece of paper you simply pay for but even if there were stricter criteria for being issued one I'm not sure how it would be enforced. Any action would need to prioritise animal welfare before human convenience.

I'd suggest:
Tighter controls on breeding
Stop importing dogs from abroad
Using microchips for more than just tracking down lost or stolen dogs
A mechanism to asses the suitability of potential dog owners
Compulsory training for potential dog owners

I would also support a total ban on extendable dog leads in urban areas but that's just my personal prejudice.

I love dogs and own one. I take my responsibilities to his welfare and not inconveniencing other people by my choices very seriously.

Yeah I dont think you should be able to own a pet without being vetted and getting a license, followed by a yearly check up by a welfare officer and vet.

Aside from flat out animal abuse, there are too many people leaving dogs home all day, keeping multiple cats in tiny flats with no outdoor space, and having rabbits and rodents in small hutches.

It's disgusting and it should be regulated.

I think having an animal should be a privilege not a right.

There aren’t enough animals needing homes, though.

All insisting that people rescue in this country only will achieve is increase the demand for puppies!

Unenforceable and ludicrous tinpot idea. Police will already deal with obviously bites and anything serious.

Making the sale of animals on Gumtree etc illegal would be a start. Banning the breeding of domestic animals for profit without a licence might be another. But it all costs money to enforce so won't happen.

I totally agree with this. Stopping people being able to easily get a pet in the first place would mean only people serious about caring for an animal are more likely to get one. People should not be able to buy and sell lives on gumtree.

Someone I know bought a dog during lockdown and bred it to have puppies which she sold for £2,000 each. It’s so morally wrong. She’ll probably do it again next year.

Someone else I know works for the rspca and the laws to protect animals and punish those who abuse them are not strong enough. She gets so disheartened at the number of people who abuse and neglect animals without consequence. They should be permanently banned from having pets. The police should be allowed to force their way into people’s homes when they suspect they’ve ignored the ban and gotten more animals. More people should go to jail for the abuse and the sentences/fines should be longer/higher.

There’s a well known public park with peacocks near where I live and the staff their have a constant battle getting dog owners to keep their dogs on leads around the peacocks and the children’s play park. There’s so many dog owners claiming ‘my dog won’t hurt them’. One woman couldn’t recall her ‘family friendly’ dog a couple of months ago when it aggressively barked and chased one peacock. The bird was terrified and panicked, tried to get away fast and flew into the cafe glass window nearby, broke its neck and died. It was in the local newspapers and everyone was talking about it. There’s still arrogant dog owners walking about that area without putting their dogs on leads because ‘my dog wouldn’t hurt them’. It won’t until it does.

I also think all children’s play parks should be surrounding by a fence that dog owners are not allowed to enter.

Good owners will get licences and bad owners simply will not bother. I think people underestimate the amount of time and effort you have to put in to ensure you are a good owner.

It is so easy to own a pet and they are really cute when they are pups/kittens but they are really really hard work and I just despair when I see how some people treat their animals.

But breeding does need to be absolutely tightly regulated. Anyone can do it, it's so sad seeing all the litters being reduced on Gumtree etc. because the pandemic boom is over, and all the young untrained pups ending up in rescues. Needs to be a cap on puppies allowed to be bred, for sure.

@FreedomFaith, the lab bites things is mostly a numbers game. They have been one of the top breeds in UK for decades, bred and registered in the highest numbers, so it stands to reason that they will be a breed with a higher bite incidence as there are soooo many more of them.
Plus, like all retrievers, they are very ‘mouthy’ pups (all dogs are mouthy when teething but retrievers more so as they use their mouths for their breed standard ‘jobs’). However, because they are bred to pick up and carry birds without damaging them, they have ‘soft mouths’ and a very low, controlled, bite pressure for a dog with such a big head and jaw. Hence the more minor injuries.

Dogs mostly give off lots of ‘I’m not happy’ signals before they bite. I don’t know the scenario of the little boy in Caerphilly and so this isn’t about him or his case specifically. Lots of bites happen because the situation has escalated and no one has read the signs. There needs to be more education around dog safety, even for children, rather than licences. Licences are a waste of time as only the responsible and law abiding will apply for them and also they will be prohibitively expensive to administer and enforce.

@bluetongue

I’m in Australia where dogs have to be registered with the council. I can assure you there is no shortage of terrible dog owners here.

Yes, exactly the same here in NZ.

Yeah I dont think you should be able to own a pet without being vetted and getting a license, followed by a yearly check up by a welfare officer and vet.

How are you going to enforce this? Who is going to pay for it? How are you even going to know who owns animals or not considering so many people get theirs from friends or neighbours who've had a litter and not registered it etc.

It's a nice idea but it's impossible to enforce in reality. The current dog laws aren't enforced as it is so there's no way any new ones will be!

I can't see them banning off lead dogs.

Firstly, most of these attacks are in private property or where dogs have escaped the property they live at. So it's not relevant to keeping kids safe. Yes, I know some owners are shit and let their dogs approach kids when they shouldn't. But have there been any fatal attacks not on private property

Secondly, dogs Oare nor going to be banned for being off lead while cats are allowed to roam, shit in people's gardens etc.

Off lead walking is good for dogs mental and physical well being. Just like cats being able to roam is good for their well being. I can't see a time, that those things will be banned tbh.

@icedcoffees
In Belgium they set up an animal police division, the UK could do something similar. People love animals in this country so maybe it could be funded by donations. You would enforce it by having all gumtree/local sales made totally illegal so the only place people would be getting their animals from are registered breeders or shelters who would apply.for the license for the buyer so there would be a log?
www.thebulletin.be/belgium-gets-official-animal-police

Needs to start with tightly regulated breeders, you should only be able to breed dogs unless you have a license and follow strict guidelines. It’s ridiculous that anyone can breed dogs, also ridiculous that anyone can own them, they are potentially dangerous animals.

@EvenRosesHaveThorns

But breeding does need to be absolutely tightly regulated. Anyone can do it, it's so sad seeing all the litters being reduced on Gumtree etc. because the pandemic boom is over, and all the young untrained pups ending up in rescues. Needs to be a cap on puppies allowed to be bred, for sure.

There are already caps on litters, through local authority breeder registrations (if you breed over X litters per year, I think it’s 3, you have to register with the council for inspections and whatnot) and through the kennel club (for pedigrees). However, unscrupulous breeders will simply not tell anyone about their multiple litters and terrible conditions. I think the law needs to be tougher on puppy farmers and their shitty ilk but the registration stuff is already there, it’s enforcing it that’s the issue.

I have a french bulldog
He’s very vicious towards men any men including my husband - but only if I’m there
On his own with my DH he is absolutely fine
Something in him triggers him if I’m near my DH .
Despite this we aren’t not going to put him down which would be the only option
So we never let him off the lead when out and about . He wears a leather and metal muzzle when out and looks like dominatrix or Hannible lecture but the muzzle means I don’t worry about the idiots who come right up and try to smooth him without asking

We will be Rude and abrupt to people when they try to get close to smooth him and we avoid people which is easy enough to do

He isn’t interested in other dogs and isn’t dog aggressive
He gets walked everyday 3-4 times so he not bored or overweight like a lot of dogs
Our house is like Fort Knox 😂 so there is no way he can escape he would have to get past 3 doors and a gate
We have a sign up outside the house warning anyone of the dog
We have an outside post box for the postman

On the plus side we never have visitors because of the dog 😂 and we don’t have any children. I can’t remember the last time we had visitors which we are both happy with

But if we did the dog would be in the kitchen and tied up on a long lead attached to a small bracket plus stair gate

He goes in kennels when we go away even if it’s for 1 night as I don’t want anyone looking after him but the lady who owns the kennels is aware of what he is like so never allows any men near him if and is with him and she’s been looking after our dogs for 20 years
He has a huge secure garden to play in which he loves and no chance of escaping the garden as I has a 3 foot sold wall and then fencing on top

A lot of people would have sold him to get back the money they paid without telling people what he is like
But I couldn’t do that as I know he could hurt potentially hurt someone so we manage him and he is fine

I actually saw a report done years ago that said it was labs that bit most people, just not with as much damage as other dogs. And even if they killed someone, doubt it would get much press or backlash. No one would blame the breed, they'd blame the owner. the numbers are proportional to the breeds. The lab is the most popular breed in the UK, it therefore stands to reason that more dog bites will be from labs than from staffies, because there are more of them.

I have said this countless times but for some reason I am always dismissed for doing so.

First off we need to make profiting from the sale of animals illegal. That way you would shut down the puppy farming industry overnight.

All litters need to be registered, meaning that if a dog bites it can be traced back to the breeder, and if more than one dog from the same litter bites then the breeder should be prohibited from breeding from that bitch again, as should the owner of the stud.

The import of rescues from abroad should be banned. They mostly come from completely unsuitable environments with no proper checks etc. We have enough dogs over here, we shouldn’t be taking on more who will probably end up in the rescues in this country instead.

And I know this is controversial, but we need to do away with the idea of no kill rescues.

Rescues are full to over flowing, but the majority of those dogs are dogs which can never be rehomed to anyone without specialist knowledge, and many of them do have socialisation and even aggression issues. This means that your average dog owner is unlikely to be approved to rescue, not because they aren’t suitable, but because the dogs aren’t. But the rescues can’t admit most of their dogs aren’t suitable for rehoming so they put the onus on the clients.

Dogs coming in who are considered unsuitable for rehoming should be euthanised. The quote from some that “we never put a healthy dog down,” is completely disingenuous. If a dog is so traumatised etc that it can never be rehomed then it is not a healthy dog and should be put down.

Maybe then there would be more space in rescues for dogs who have less behavioural problems and people would be more likely to be approved to rescue them.

I don't think a dog licence or an exam would have any effect really. All a dog licence does is prove you can afford a dog licence. All an exam will do is prove you can parrot the things you're supposed to do to look after a dog. It won't mean you have any intention of actually doing those things.

Oh and rehoming an aggressive dog should be illegal.

@Nyxly wondered how long it would take until someone tried to deflect in to cats! Cats do not attack snd kill kids. They are not comparable, a bit of cat shit in someone’s garden is not comparable to having your throat ripped out by a dog! Yes, attacks happen off private property, all the time. My child was bitten in the street by a random dog. Lots of countries only allow dogs to be off lead in dog only spaces, it’s totally doable.

In my class of 22 children, six are in the process of rehoming their lockdown dogs.

Yet we’ve been trying to get a rescue dog for over a year and can’t get one. The shelters are empty!