thinking its now time to get super tough on dog ownership?

[adam7485]

after what has happened in wales to that poor little boy i can't help thinking its time to not jus bring back dog licences but before you buy a dog you should have to take an exam to prove that you can look after it properly. not only that but if your dog attacks someone not only should it be taken away from you but from that moment on your banned from ever owning dogs. anyone agree with me?

@Trixiefirecracker

What baffles me more is why people insist on having working dogs like collies in cities and never exercise them properly. My friend has one that is rarely walked and it just goes nuts around everyone. It needs agility lessons or some sort of puzzle games to keep it occupied but the poor thing is left to it’s own devices. Dogs like these need lots of stimulation but lots of owners are too lazy to do so, then they end up rounding up kids and nipping them! The dogs not the owners. 😂 I don’t know why they didn’t get a King Charles or a lap dog if they just wanted a dog they didn’t have to do much with.

Yep, always research the breed! One of my neighbours has a spaniel... they are always shouting at the poor dog to get in bed etc. Proper shouting that you would call the cops if it was aimed at a person level. Poor dog will probably snap at some point and end up in the local press.

These threads always go the same way i.e bull breed bashing. Sorry but the British Veterinary Association and RSPCA disagree with you, and I think they know more about dogs than Tracy off mumsnet! I don’t care what some daft Wikipedia article says. There is a reason most universities won’t allow you to reference your work to Wikipedia!

My staffie lives peacefully with my four cats and eight mouth old DD. I know it’s anecdotal but I’ve never met an aggressive staffie, at least not to people and I would never look to have any other breed.

I agree dog legislation needs reformed but not through BSL. It’s cruel and it does not work. If you really want to learn about BSL and why it’s ineffective then please see below (all credible sources with references other than Wikipedia I might add).

www.bva.co.uk/news-and-blog/news-article/veterinary-bodies-continue-call-for-repeal-of-breed-specific-legislation-as-dangerous-dogs-act-s-30th-anniversary-looms/

www.rspca.org.uk/getinvolved/campaign/bsl

www.bluecross.org.uk/our-campaign-to-end-breed-specific-legislation

Awful tragedy of a innocent child and his family. So sad.

I have no idea the bread of the dog involved. With this in mind

I'm very concerned about the rise in popularity of the cain corso

A huge powerful dog that's most definitely being used as a status symbol in some quarters.

I live in a tiny rural village and most of the dogs here are labs and spaniels
I'd be terrified coming across a corso on a walk.

@Binxthecat, are you not at all moved by the fatality stats? I know it's a Wiki article, but I've been around long enough to remember many of these cases, and on the whole there isn't much argument about the general breed type of the attacking dog.

I've owned a JRT and I'd be the first to say that JRTs can be little shits, and that many of them need to be closely watched around small DC and other dogs. I'm not sure why bull-breed owners tend to stick their fingers in their ears and go 'Lalalala the RSPCA doesn't agree' when the fatality stats are right there. There is an issue with certain types of dog - not just the owners, but the actual genetics at play.

You’re much more likely to be bitten by a Labrador. Or so say the Pet insurance companies that report labs to account for the highest number of canine attack personal injury claims. Not that I think we should ban labs too, just that focusing on breed is useless.

I’ve been unfortunate enough to experience two dog attacks in my time. In both cases police were not interested and the dog warden had next to no enforcement powers. In both cases I was asked the breed of the offending dogs (happened to be lab and spaniel). Police are only interested if a dog is on the banned list. I think they only have realistic powers to seize a dog if they suspect it’s on the banned list regardless of what it has done. I’m sure if my staffie cross had of been the offending dog it would have been a different story! It’s a broken piece of shitty legislation that needs reformed.

@Trixiefirecracker - you are so right!!

I can’t recommend enough a CKCS for first time dog owners!

They are so easygoing. In my mind a new dog owner should think worst case scenario on walking etc., rather than your aspiration!

The other good first dog is a rehomed greyhound (not with cats though)

However both breeds don’t necessarily give the image people want and therefore are rejected as don’t look the part!

[quote Grumpyosaurus]@Binxthecat, are you not at all moved by the fatality stats? I know it's a Wiki article, but I've been around long enough to remember many of these cases, and on the whole there isn't much argument about the general breed type of the attacking dog.

I've owned a JRT and I'd be the first to say that JRTs can be little shits, and that many of them need to be closely watched around small DC and other dogs. I'm not sure why bull-breed owners tend to stick their fingers in their ears and go 'Lalalala the RSPCA doesn't agree' when the fatality stats are right there. There is an issue with certain types of dog - not just the owners, but the actual genetics at play.[/quote]
I’m moved my the thousand of dogs that are PTS every year, while dog bite injuries and fatalities continue to rise. I cannot believe you would trust a Wikipedia article over the British Veterinary Association when it comes to something canine related! It’s mind boggling.

Makes me sick to my stomach hearing about yet another child killed by an ffing dog. If it were up to me, I'd quite happily see any aggressive dog put down instantly and the owner put to work cleaning out the fatbergs in the sewers.

The penalties for irresponsible dog owners should be much higher and a much higher priority for antisocial behavior imo. From the irritating leaving a dog at home all day howling at the walls, to leaving shit in the park and the unforgiveable attacking an actual person, there need to be much greater deterrants. And no more stray dogs being flown in from other countries, we are one of the most densely populated countries already, we don't need more fucking dogs!

Pit Bull is still responsible for the most fatal attacks in the U.S. by far, killing 284 people over that 13-year period - 66 percent of total fatalities. That's despite the breed accounting for just 6.5% of the total U.S. dog population.13 Sept 2018

@daimbarsatemydogsbone

I don't see anything much in anything proposed on this thread or elsewhere that would have prevented the recent death or similar events.

People die in cars in every day because they refuse to drive properly - quite a lot of accidents seem to be caused by people with no licence - and that's in an area which we theoretically regulate quite tightly.

Like all populist knee-jerk reactions it's founded on a misapprehension of the actual problem. The main issue as with almost everything in the UK is that there is plenty of legislation already in force that covers these things, but very little day-to-day enforcement. This leads to calls for draconian bans on things as if that will suddenly change behaviour. In fact, the law abiding and responsible will do as they told as they always do, and everyone else who doesn't give a fuck will carry on as they were, with no-one to stop them.

This! Spot on

I walk large groups of dogs. For example we had 11 today (3 humans). All in a country park. All trained by me to have excellent recall. I wish you could see me in action ro believe me.

Anyway. Two off eked random dogs joined us. The people they were with made no attempt tk call them back. We got quite far ahead and they were still with us. I put one on a lead and called number on the tag and said come get your dog! If she didn’t I’d have taken it to the shelter and she’d have to pay £80 to get it back.

It’s not on for us professionals either. We vet every dog we take out. And assess them constantly. We don’t know the random dogs. We don’t know if our group will like them. Of course if anything happened it would be our fault 🙄 felt like charging them for the privilege of walking with us 😡

The other good first dog is a rehomed greyhound (not with cats though

My friend rehomed a greyhound, poor thing growled and bared it’s teeth at anyone going within a few feet of it.

@fumfspos

I live in another country where there is a dog tax and everyone dog owner has to attend a course about caring for a dog, dog behaviour etc. There isn't an exam at the end of the course but attendance is compulsory. For "dangerous dogs" there are extra requirements such as a specific additional course. The dog also has to pass a social behaviour test.

I really do think something like that should be introduced in the UK too.

This sounds like a great idea.

Like many things though, your responsible people will get licenses and do all they should. The irresponsible ones - who really need targeting - just won’t bother!

I'm in Ireland where by law you must have a dog licence and have your dog microchipped. Turns out the people who are shit owners just don't bother with those things...

@Binxthecat but it isn't about how many labradors bite people.
This is about a large bull breed killing a child.
Labradors do not regularly kill children in the way bull breeds do.
I am not too worried about the odd labrador biting his owner.
I am deeply saddened about a very large bull breed (poss American Pitbull) killing a child, and I do think we as a society saying keeping these animals as pets is unacceptable would prevent many children's deaths.
If that also meant people couldn't have staffies as pets either, well I think that would be worth the sacrifice.
Some dogs are dangerous and deadly and I don't think any of those large breeds belong in homes.

@OverweightPidgeon

The other good first dog is a rehomed greyhound (not with cats though

My friend rehomed a greyhound, poor thing growled and bared it’s teeth at anyone going within a few feet of it.

And that poor greyhound (and I say poor because most are rescue and gone through shit to get to a home, so if it growled then something has happened to it) most greyhounds are not suitable for homes with cats at all.

@violetanemone

I think it's a nice idea to bring back dog licenses, but unfortunately the police/ government do not currenlty have the resources or aptitude to actually enforce anything like that. They won't do it because if they do it means they will have to follow through and enforce it.

This. Who's going to pay for all the extra bureaucracy involved?

@OverweightPidgeon no I don't lock him away from visiting children.

However, he's never left unattended with any visiting children. But that's not because he's a bull breed - that's because it's common sense.

@OverweightPidgeon

The other good first dog is a rehomed greyhound (not with cats though

My friend rehomed a greyhound, poor thing growled and bared it’s teeth at anyone going within a few feet of it.

So, do you think it should be PTS?

@XenoBitch no of course not, I didn’t say that . I’m just saying that even the most placid of breeds need to be treated with caution . If you note I said ‘poor thing’ , I felt sorry for it .

All dogs can bite, but most of the deaths are caused by bull breeds. That's a fact. If no-one kept bull breeds, then there would be hardly any dog related deaths in the UK. The stats are clear. That's not breed bashing, or owner bashing...its a clear fact.

Bull breeds, when they really snap, are way more likely to kill people than any other breeds are. That's not to say other breeds are perfect, but they're much safer than bull breeds. It's not a huge reach to imagine that bull breeds are also then likely to be responsible for most of the severely disfiguring injuries and for many of the dog related deaths of other pet dogs and cats too.

hello again. well to answer the question of who would enforce it the revenue from the scheme as already pointed out would pay for extra council wardens a specialist police enforcement units. regular police and council operations to weed out the law breakers with intelegence lead information from members of the public. i feel with all due respect that some of the people on this thread seem to be suggested nothing should change because there will always be bad dog owners. ok well with that mindset maybe we should have nobody policing the roads because there will always be wreckless drivers, maybe we should legalise all drugs because there will always be another dealer waiting to take over the patch of a dealer who has been jailed. what vibes i'm getting from some of you is lets look for excuses to do nothing. ps i know my replies are not frequent but i tend to like to let a thread gather pace rather than posting every 5 minutes like i have seen on other threads.

Intelligence led from the public?

And how would your neighbours know or suspect if you did or didn't have a license

Police were quickly overwhelmed by people calling in because they felt their neighbour didn't need to go to the shop during the first lockdown.

Its also unlikely that this 'specialist' process team would be gu enough powers to stop and ask for your dog paperwork, without a reason to stop you. So if you are our walking your dog, acting within the rules, they won't be able to defend to see license

I think something needs to be done. I do t think a dog license is it. I think certain breeds shouldn't be able to be bred and I think that reports of dogs acting aggressively and/or killing other animlas needs to be taken more seriously

I also think sentences for people who have dogs that kill should be far higher.

Again the other problem is policing people within their homes. Since thats where most of the attacks take place.

I also think there needs to be more consequences for people whose dog are not secured on the property properly. We have several large dogs in the village that are constantly getting out.

I do think that having more legislation around owning a dog is a good idea but it still won’t stop these large bully breeds from doing what is in their dna and attacking people when they are in the home , which is where these tragedies seem to happen. The dog won’t think ‘oh I’m licensed now, better not bite anyone’.