Wits end with school

[autumnvibes1]

This isn't a AIBU but posting here for traffic.

I posted a few weeks ago about an issue that happened at my DS school between my DS and another boy in his class. This boy touched my DS inappropriately in the toilets and the matter was not dealt with well at all. Teacher did not call us, when i messaged her to ask her what happened and how it had been dealt with she ignored my questions. Me and DS dad requested a meeting with the Head he agreed the teacher should have rung us and that she didn't handle the situation correctly. He said it would be put into place that our DS would not be alone in the toilets with this boy anymore in class time. Also it would be relayed to DS class teacher that she should communicate effectively with us in future.
We thought matter would be dealt with better. Tonight my DS has come home and told us this boy pushed him over today at lunch time. DS told the Teaching assistant in his class who was on duty. The TA removed my DS from playing with his other friend to put him to play with a group of people he didn't know.
I don't understand why DS was removed from playing with his friend he was playing with and the boy who pushed him over wasn't taken away from my DS/ the situation. Especially after incidents that had happened before. The toilet incident was one of many but this was the most significant.
Nothing was told to us today and the head mentioned things would be mentioned more to us now to put us at ease with how matters are dealt with regarding this child. We didn't think anything else would happen as we had confidence the behaviours of this child would be dealt with.
This other child has also behaved similar to this with one other child that we know of.
I just don't know where to go from here because i feel like our concerns have fallen on deaf ears and the behaviour management is poor from the class teacher.
What would you do in this situation?

I honestly want to cry!!

I am getting no where with the school. DS teacher is off all this week and we don't know why. Incidents are still happening. Today being the child looked under the toilet door of DS when it was agreed he would not go in there when DS was.
I've now spoken to another parent whom my DS had mentioned this child had been upsetting too. This parent also feels the same as me. She has not taken it to the headteacher yet though.
Sent an email to the head requesting a phone call. He just listed out the points back at me and no phone call.
I replied, still haven't heard back.
I want a good relationship with the school but they are making it impossible, I want moving DS from school as a last resort but im increasingly starting to think about it.

Honestly. Without knowing what the toilet incident was it's hard to judge
However , they are 5

5 year olds are largely inappropriate

The playground incident is fine. The TA seperated two boys
How do you know what actually happened?

Your child will have their own perspective when it's likely it won't be the whole picture

You do sound "one of those" parents

There's two different issues here OP and again you need to separate the actual issues from you having gripes with the school.

Your child's teacher is off and they have staffed the class. You do not need to know why they are off.

The fact the other child was in there with DS needs more unpicking. For example, there's a big difference between two students from the same class being allowed to go to the toilet at the same time and two students ending up in the toilets at the same time at break / lunch having got permission from different members of staff.

There is no need to be going round other parents discussing other children. It sounds like you're not only annoyed at the school, but are trying to fuel a witch hunt against another child, which is really unpleasant.

Keep your discussions with the head about your concerns regarding your own child and if you are unhappy that your child isn't being safeguarded the lots of us have given you advice on procedure and suggested you withdraw your child.

@autumnvibes1

I honestly want to cry!!

I am getting no where with the school. DS teacher is off all this week and we don't know why. Incidents are still happening. Today being the child looked under the toilet door of DS when it was agreed he would not go in there when DS was.
I've now spoken to another parent whom my DS had mentioned this child had been upsetting too. This parent also feels the same as me. She has not taken it to the headteacher yet though.
Sent an email to the head requesting a phone call. He just listed out the points back at me and no phone call.
I replied, still haven't heard back.
I want a good relationship with the school but they are making it impossible, I want moving DS from school as a last resort but im increasingly starting to think about it.

You have no need to know why the teacher is off.

If it's a supply, they might have been told not to let them go to the toilets at the same time, but as a supply you have to remember 101 things in an unknown environment, different expectations everyday, and you don't know the children.

If you didn't get a phone call, I'm assuming the points he listed were in an email? The head is unlikely to offer a phone call if it can be dealt with in an email.

You might have some valid concerns, but it does sound like you're being a bit difficult to deal with. You'll get much further with them if you go about it in a nicer way. Focus on the toilet incidents. Pushing is really not a big deal at 5 years old. It happens too often.

You say you're not looking for problems, but you're clearly looking for something or else you wouldn't have found the tweet made under the head's personal account.

None of your business why a teacher is off

@autumnvibes1

I honestly want to cry!!

I am getting no where with the school. DS teacher is off all this week and we don't know why. Incidents are still happening. Today being the child looked under the toilet door of DS when it was agreed he would not go in there when DS was.
I've now spoken to another parent whom my DS had mentioned this child had been upsetting too. This parent also feels the same as me. She has not taken it to the headteacher yet though.
Sent an email to the head requesting a phone call. He just listed out the points back at me and no phone call.
I replied, still haven't heard back.
I want a good relationship with the school but they are making it impossible, I want moving DS from school as a last resort but im increasingly starting to think about it.

1-
For a start did the other child know it was your child in the loo when he looked under the door
2-. Does a 5 year old have boundaries? If your child squeela or makes a fuss the other child might be doing it to get a reaction (not right but again they are 5)
3- the head emailed you that is your response

4- other parents/children are non of your concern. That's their issue.

5- you definitely seem like you are looking for issues. Do you suffer from anxiety? That's not meant as anything negative but you do seem "hard work" and perhaps projecting and over thinking

Can I just say I haven't gone into too much detail about other incidents so can people stop jumping down my throat! This child has said very aggressive things. Physically assaulted another child. Been inappropriate with my child.

Throw into the mix the school giving my DS an incorrect meal with allergies.

I think I have ground to be very cross and concerned

@autumnvibes1

Can I just say I haven't gone into too much detail about other incidents so can people stop jumping down my throat! This child has said very aggressive things. Physically assaulted another child. Been inappropriate with my child.

Throw into the mix the school giving my DS an incorrect meal with allergies.

I think I have ground to be very cross and concerned

Well move school then?

@autumnvibes1

Can I just say I haven't gone into too much detail about other incidents so can people stop jumping down my throat! This child has said very aggressive things. Physically assaulted another child. Been inappropriate with my child.

Throw into the mix the school giving my DS an incorrect meal with allergies.

I think I have ground to be very cross and concerned

Please also remember the child is five, physical assault are very strong words for a child of 5 that's hit another pupil.

So now you are drip feeding. You're not happy. Move schools

You sound like hard work, tbh. This other child 'looked under the toilet door.' He's 5, it's not a hanging crime.
Your son was 'touched inappropriately' but you won't say how inappropriate the incident was. There are varying degrees of inappropriate behaviour, and if you refuse to say what happened, how can anyone judge?
Then you realize that your son was accidentally given the wrong meal, and that the school rang to apologize. How did your son know it was the wrong meal, and if he did know, why couldn't he say so at the time?
It sounds as if you are questioning him at the end of every day, to gather a catalogue of things that haven't been done correctly.
You are only at the start of your child's school career. If you start off like this you are in for many relentless years of frustration.

OP
Nobody is saying you haven't got grounds to be concerned, but your whole attitude and outlook very much resembles a parent who is more concerned with fuelling drama or point-scoring than getting a resolution. You've shown throughout this thread and your previous thread that you're unwilling to keep your focus on the issues that matter in favour of generally complaining about the school.

So far you've had two threads where you have outlined that you feel the school is failing its safeguarding duty towards your child, is failing to keep your child safe at school, is not responding to inappropriate behaviour appropriately, has placed your child at risk by giving the wrong meal option, that you have looked for the head's social media, felt that he's hanging onto the previous Ofsted, you don't feel the school is heading in a positive direction, you question the head's leadership and professional judgement, and now you're complaining that you haven' t been told why your child's teacher is absent and have been stirring up conversations with other parents about a child in the school.

As a teacher, if I had safeguarding concerns at the level you are suggesting on your threads then I would have followed formal procedures for a complaint before this point and would be keeping my child off school until a plan to safeguard them was in place, or they'd be moving school.

The fact you're still sending your child in and are still preferring to gossip with parents over taking formal action makes me wonder whether your safeguarding concerns are as serious as you're suggesting on here.

@autumnvibes1 You have been given very good advice on what to do, but you’re ignoring this and now drip feeding.
My advice remains the same. You have to follow the school complaints policy. Find it on the website, read what it says, and follow the process. This is the only way you’re going to get any resolution.

Constantly grumbling on here is pointless. Follow the policy. You have grounds to complain, but it must be done in the right way.
You do not have any right to know why a member of staff is off.

Other than that, change schools because it sounds like relations are breaking down.

It kind of puts my head in a spin, reading about some schools , for younger kids, these days, and all the problems that seem to arise.. I simply don't remember schools in the older days, having so many issues,either with the children,or the teachers.. There were no TA's no safeguarding staff, no lunch box police etc. There was a head of school, and various male and female teachers, who seemed to keep everyone controlled in the class or playground, and naughtier children,were dealt with appropriately, usually with a few strong words, and no messing about.

Children did the usual pushing and shoving of eachother, and tripping each other up etc,, and with any fighting, they got repremanded,, and usually the parents were glad to hear this was the action taken at school.

I'm not drip feeding the food incident happened a few days ago.
I'm going to leave this here. I'm upset and people are just not being very nice.

Can only reiterate the points here.
Follow the schools' official complaints procedure for each incident you have mentioned.
If any complaint is not adequately resolved, escalate it to the board of governors.
Regarding safeguarding, is the governing body do not resolve, then contact the LADO for the area you live in.

The lunch issue is concerning. Whilst this time there was not a terrible outcome, this isn't something that should happen. Have the school explained what steps are now in place to ensure such an incident doesn't happen again?

School are not required to tell you why a teacher is off. They are required to have a teacher who can cover class provision.

@autumnvibes1

I'm not drip feeding the food incident happened a few days ago. I'm going to leave this here. I'm upset and people are just not being very nice.

I appreciate you’re upset, but you have been given some advice by people, including myself, who deal with school complaints on the best course of action. This advice is to help you.

Declaring people aren’t being very helpful because you don’t want to acknowledge that advice and instead prefer to be upset, is very odd. The longer you leave this upset without dealing with it, the more upset you’ll be, and your child will likely pick up on your anxieties about going to school.

You have cause to complain using the schools policy. Being proactive with the school is far better than being upset and angry at home. I am not disagreeing with you that you don’t have a right to be upset or a cause to complain, but you must reframe your expectations. Schools cannot resolve complaints if you don’t bring them through the correct process. You don’t have a right to know why a member of staff is off. You and your child do have a rights to be kept safe in school, and as I have said, the way forward to get a resolution, is to use the school complaints policy.

Ofsted do not deal with school complaints, the DfE Schools Unit do, but they will want to know what steps you took with the school first through the steps in their policy.

Excellent posts from @WeatherwaxOn and @KloppsTeeth.

I hope the OP keeps the focus on the main issues, takes the advice that many of us have given, and follows proper procedures to get a resolution.
The longer this goes on and the more serious issues get mixed up with petty gripes about the school, the more OP's child is going to have an unsettled experience of school.

@WeatherwaxOn

Can only reiterate the points here. Follow the schools' official complaints procedure for each incident you have mentioned. If any complaint is not adequately resolved, escalate it to the board of governors. Regarding safeguarding, is the governing body do not resolve, then contact the LADO for the area you live in.

The lunch issue is concerning. Whilst this time there was not a terrible outcome, this isn't something that should happen. Have the school explained what steps are now in place to ensure such an incident doesn't happen again?

School are not required to tell you why a teacher is off. They are required to have a teacher who can cover class provision.

Thank you for your advice.

Yes it is concerning. The school secretary called and let me know, found out what happened for me and apologized. I said to her it was of no fault of her own and that i appreciated her letting me know. Whilst i did received an apology from her, it's not her responsibility. So therefore i raised the issue with the head. His response was pedantic, he actually went to check and wrote down in an email how many times my DS had a dinner at the school and therefore apparently this was a rare occasion. That is not the point, a rare occasion could seriously hurt my DS and if it was someone with Ana then it could have killed them.
Apparently the senior MSA has only just spoken to the MSA's about the importance of children with allergies and no procedures have put in place!!

Yes i understand school do not have to say why the teacher is off. I was saying it as in oh i don't know why she's off, not demanding for me to know

@KloppsTeeth and i really do appreciate everyones advice. This is an anon forum, my concerns I have raised here eg. tweet, why teacher is off, lack of confidence of head have not been raised in the outside world. I have followed the complaint procedure so far. Have had informal chats with class teacher and TA since teacher has been off. Had a meeting with the head, sent emails to the head expressing our concerns still.
Obviously the next step would be governors which me and DS father have put off to see if the issues can be resolved because it would not be fair to go straight to them if we have not given it time for the issues to be sorted. They have not been and the things the head has suggested to put in place for our DS are not working and are not being followed.

The head should be reassuring and but we feel he is being pedantic and he also put a video on classdojo yesterday with the caption "ever wondered what your child does at lunch, here you go" he then sent me his email at the same time. So i feel he is trying to say nothing is going on at lunch when it clearly is.

Sorry if I seem to be being repetitive but there are some important steps to take here.
Each issue needs to be raised as a separate issue. The school must then investigate them.
If any issue is not resolved/you feel is not adequately resolved, it is important that you follow the schools set complaints procedure.
That way, when you raise with governors, it can't get "bounced back" for not following the set steps.

It is time consuming, and frustrating but safeguarding is of great importance and if there are shortfalls then there could be some serious implications

Finally, although it may be tempting, it is better not to get drawn into school gate gossip about teachers, school policy or other problems. There is scope for things to be misconstrued or misunderstood, and rumours to start up.

@autumnvibes1 Honestly at this point, I would move schools.
The next step is governors via complaints, and I think the Safeguarding governor (this person will be named on the school website) should know about the lunchtime issues.
But for your own peace of mind, I would move now. People should choose schools based on how they feel, and you’re not getting the right feel in this one.

The head should be reassuring and but we feel he is being pedantic and he also put a video on classdojo yesterday with the caption "ever wondered what your child does at lunch, here you go" he then sent me his email at the same time. So i feel he is trying to say nothing is going on at lunch when it clearly is.

I bet the timing was a coincidence, but the breakdown in trust means you're going to perceive anything like this as a slight against you by the head. I would seriously take steps to move schools, because you're never going to think this head has your DS's best interests at heart.

You say the head put on a video ...his PA will have done that on his behalf No idea what you think head teachers do but they honestly do not run the social media of a School