AIBU to think a soap shop shouldn't be encouraging young girls to self harm?

[Elleexxtra]

Lush Paddington are giving out binders, meaning girls can self harm without any danger of their parents knowing and being able to discuss potential issues with them.

www.instagram.com/lushpaddington/

AIBU to think young girls shouldn't be groomed to hate their bodies?

@KurtWilde

The outright transphobia and misandry on MN these days is absolutely abhorrent.

Report it if you see it.

It is not so unusual Eishet when you start to have conversations with some mature male transitioners who like to ignore completely or to downplay the significantly higher negative health effects that medicalised transition has for females compared to males.

Once you start a conversation about it, they will bring in their supposedly healthy adult trans men friends and will continue to ignore the research into puberty blockers and their known effects on female bodies when used for precocious puberty. And the known effects of testosterone to the female body. Including the atrophy that leads to very early hysterectomies and the recent health studies indicating that very early dementia is an known effect of early hysterectomies.

Those people who are advocating for puberty blockers and early access to cross sex hormones often ignore these already well documented effects.

The fact that they are complicit in sexist discrimination on the basis of different health risks in what they are campaigning for, is uncomfortable to admit.

Young females are being let down because of institutes such as GIDS and their proven extremely poor record tracking. They have been let down because of 'no debate' blocked discussion for so long about the rapid and overwhelming increase in the young female transitioners. They have been let down with the constant dismissing of detransitioners, their stories and their numbers.

And they are being let down because activists continue to campaign, not for young females to accept their bodies (like the mature males get to keep their penises), not to rapidly improve mental health care to allow exploration of this cohort's mental health needs to treat underlying comorbidities (because that could constitute as 'conversion') but for young females to aspire to flatten their breasts in the same style of relief as cutting and food control.

TLDR: young females who have poor mental health about their bodies, should be receiving intensive mental health care to assist them with accepting that whatever their 'gender' their body shape is acceptable and they should accept their natural body shape. Not be handed binders and told, falsely, they are harmless.

KurtWilde

Ah, the illusion of choice in a patriarchal society. Young women used to choose to apply lead to their faces, too.

Do you know what feminism is for? Well for me, it's always been about supporting people born female to resist the social pressures on them to change their body. No-one needs a self-styled "rights" movement to support them to change their body- patriarchy and capitalism dothat. I want young female people to have as much freedom as male people do to live in their bodies as they are.

Transphobia and misandry for caring about the physical well-being of girls and the cascade of unintended consequences when a soap company decides to treat gender dysphoria to hit the right marketing vibe?

War is peace.
Freedom is slavery.
Ignorance is strength.

Wow. I'm going to give them a miss for all the Christmas presents I usually buy there

@MonsignorMirth

They bind so they can wear T-shirt's and tops and pass better as men How are you defining "men" here, specifically *@KurtWilde*? For breasts to be at all relevant, your definition must include some notion of male-sexed bodies. Think, if you can, about how transphobic this is and how it conflates sex and gender in a transphobic way.

Can you answer this, *@KurtWilde* ? How are you defining "men" ?

@KurtWilde
This isn't about trans people who absolutely should get the health care and support they need, whatever that means for them as an individual.

This is about a SOAP company pushing harmful trendy binders on teenage/preteen girls, most of whom are not actually trans

@KurtWilde

The outright transphobia and misandry on MN these days is absolutely abhorrent.

Please do report transphobia. MNHQ will not let that remain standing at all.

There are some people on this thread who could do with educating themselves.

Actually, I think that the person here who needs 'educating' is you. We are talking about children here. Girls. Females under the age of 18.

@Helleofabore

It is not so unusual Eishet when you start to have conversations with some mature male transitioners who like to ignore completely or to downplay the significantly higher negative health effects that medicalised transition has for females compared to males.

Once you start a conversation about it, they will bring in their supposedly healthy adult trans men friends and will continue to ignore the research into puberty blockers and their known effects on female bodies when used for precocious puberty. And the known effects of testosterone to the female body. Including the atrophy that leads to very early hysterectomies and the recent health studies indicating that very early dementia is an known effect of early hysterectomies.

Those people who are advocating for puberty blockers and early access to cross sex hormones often ignore these already well documented effects.

The fact that they are complicit in sexist discrimination on the basis of different health risks in what they are campaigning for, is uncomfortable to admit.

Young females are being let down because of institutes such as GIDS and their proven extremely poor record tracking. They have been let down because of 'no debate' blocked discussion for so long about the rapid and overwhelming increase in the young female transitioners. They have been let down with the constant dismissing of detransitioners, their stories and their numbers.

And they are being let down because activists continue to campaign, not for young females to accept their bodies (like the mature males get to keep their penises), not to rapidly improve mental health care to allow exploration of this cohort's mental health needs to treat underlying comorbidities (because that could constitute as 'conversion') but for young females to aspire to flatten their breasts in the same style of relief as cutting and food control.

TLDR: young females who have poor mental health about their bodies, should be receiving intensive mental health care to assist them with accepting that whatever their 'gender' their body shape is acceptable and they should accept their natural body shape. Not be handed binders and told, falsely, they are harmless.

To be clear MNHQ, I do mean SOME.

We know that not all trans people are campaigning for this. We even have had them post often on our threads.

@CityMumma78

I have been following this all afternoon and seen that the comments on their Instagram post are overwhelming negative yet anything that goes against this narrative is being deleted!

Yes, they've gone through and deleted all of the critical comments. Dissenting voices expressing concern have no place in the narrative.

they've gone through and deleted all of the critical comments. Dissenting voices expressing concern have no place in the narrative.

This is worth remembering, it distorts the narrative

KurtWilde
I think you’ll find that the vast majority of people on MUMSNET are parents with a very real and genuine concern over the safety, health and well-being of their children. Binders are physically damaging, end of story. The good people of MUMSNET are well within their rights to discuss this and raise concerns without being accused of transphobia which is clearly your only argument!!

Haven’t been in this rank smelling shop for years anyway and I’m not surprised to see they are continuing their corporate strategy of pushing gender identity politics rather than focusing on selling soap. This is a company that couldn’t give a shiny shit. about ethics or the welfare of their customers. Hope they get sued for their irresponsible promotion of this harmful practice.

One of the most important things to a trans person is passing as the gender they identify as.There are some people on this thread who could do with educating themselves.

I think you'll find most of the women on this board are pretty well educated on these matters. Some people seem to use 'poorly educated ' as a synonym for 'does not agree with me'.

Affirming very young women in their desire to do something which will damage their body and health, and which they will probably regret, in the name of 'passing' is incredibly irresponsible, not least because they are very unlikely to pass anyway.

@Helleofabore 5 out of a friendship group of 7 is a scary statistic. Too many organisations are pushing this agenda onto confused and impressionable children. Rather than saying we will help you change who you are they should be saying it's normal to be confused or unsure of who you are & we will help you discover, understand and accept who you are.

(many) Teen girls have always had a rebellious/self destruct/cry for help/attention phase - remember when they all had eating disorders/self harmed/teen pregnancies/then they were all gay/ then bi and now being trans (and half a dozen other letters of the BLT alphabet) is the thing. Organisations should be helping them through this phase of their development not promoting harmful body damage.

@CityMumma78

KurtWilde I think you’ll find that the vast majority of people on MUMSNET are parents with a very real and genuine concern over the safety, health and well-being of their children. Binders are physically damaging, end of story. The good people of MUMSNET are well within their rights to discuss this and raise concerns without being accused of transphobia which is clearly your only argument!!

The good people of mumsnet should be a copy righted term!

It’s awesome!!

misandry on MN these days is absolutely abhorrent
Okay that made me snort
There have always been men compaining about this site. In fact, some men had such big problems with it that they sent a swat team to the founder, Justine's home.
Now that is actually abhorrent behaviour.
www.theguardian.com/media/2015/aug/19/armed-police-mumsnet-justine-roberts-swatting-attack-hoax-call

thecritic.co.uk/woke-lush-have-done-it-again/
Article in the Critic.
I didn't know about this:
In 2018 Lush joined forces with Morgane Oger, a male who helped defund a rape crisis centre because it didn’t cater to men who identify as women, to “raise awareness” for trans rights.

That same year, Lush issued an apology after it emerged that some of the money from its charity pots had gone to a women’s group, and this upset trans activists

I quite agree this is wrong giving out something harmful to girls and perhaps encouraging them to hate their bodies. However, I wouldn't call this self-harm. When you self-harm you do something deliberately to harm yourself. The girls using these binders are not trying to harm themselves, although that is a side-effect of what they are doing.

@UndertheCedartree

I quite agree this is wrong giving out something harmful to girls and perhaps encouraging them to hate their bodies. However, I wouldn't call this self-harm. When you self-harm you do something deliberately to harm yourself. The girls using these binders are not trying to harm themselves, although that is a side-effect of what they are doing.

That's a fair point, thank you, I take that on board.

@UndertheCedartree

I quite agree this is wrong giving out something harmful to girls and perhaps encouraging them to hate their bodies. However, I wouldn't call this self-harm. When you self-harm you do something deliberately to harm yourself. The girls using these binders are not trying to harm themselves, although that is a side-effect of what they are doing.

Anorexia isn’t intended as self harm either.

It’s for control and restriction and getting smaller.

But the direct impact is harm to the self.

When I used to cut I didn’t do it intending to harm myself, I did it to help myself cope. And because it felt good in the moment. Other than the initial sting I only recall feeling euphoric. It was intended to help me survive the day.

But the result was harm to myself.

It’s the same thing.

@Dragongirl10

I have just commented on their instagram, can we all do this please?

Yes. Have done. And shared on aFB.

@AnOldCynic
They're going through deleting negative comments on insta