AIBU to think a soap shop shouldn't be encouraging young girls to self harm?

[Elleexxtra]

Lush Paddington are giving out binders, meaning girls can self harm without any danger of their parents knowing and being able to discuss potential issues with them.

www.instagram.com/lushpaddington/

AIBU to think young girls shouldn't be groomed to hate their bodies?

@KurtWilde I do know a number of young people who identify as or have identified as trans, including transgender.

I do not think their needs are well met at all by getting equipment such as binders from a soap shop.

I think it is positively dangerous in fact.

I do understand that the waiting lists are very long and this is distressing for people waiting for medical treatment.
I cannot imagine why Lush feels it has any role in plugging this service gap.
Lush do not have any expertise in offering either mental or physical health services.

Aperolsprizter

✨another transphobic thread thinly veiled as concern, predictable and unexciting just like the people who incite this stuff✨

I was wondering when the transphobic shut down was going to show it’s ugly self.

Binding a child is abuse. You are condoning the abuse of young vulnerable girls.

Well that's another shop to be avoided

Whatever happened to all that body positivity shite from recent years? can they not rebrand their breasts as moobs & identify as a fat bloke?
Can fat men sign up for one too to keep their moobs in check??

Is it any wonder young trans men and women take things into their own hands?

But they're not going to be taking things into their own hands. They're going to be buying binders supplied by other people. It might be better if they did take things into their own hands!

extract
Risk factors for binding side effects

People who bind their chest more frequently (every day) are more likely to experience negative symptoms. For this reason, taking days off between binding may help decrease this risk. Long term binding (over years) was also more likely to be associated with negative symptoms, particularly skin, tissues, and musculoskeletal problems (2). People with larger breasts were more likely to experience skin and soft tissue issues (2).

What people use to bind their chests with is a very personal choice, and finding a standard “best type of binder” for everyone is unclear. One study showed that people who used commercial binders experienced increased risk for the highest number of negative symptoms from binding, followed by those who used bandages, and plastic wrap or duct tape (2).

The high amount of negative effects found from commercial binders in this study were a surprise to the researchers, since blogs and otherinformalresourcesdedicated to trans men and healthy binding often recommend commercial binders (2,4). This could be due to people wearing binders that are too small, wearing them for longer periods, or wearing more than one at a time. More research is needed, but if you choose to wear a commercial binder, do your research, read reviews online, and make sure it is the right size for you.

helloclue.com/articles/cycle-a-z/chest-binding-tips-and-tricks-for-trans-men-nonbinary-and-genderfluid

When commercial binders are more damaging than DIY attempts with duct tape, I question why I should ignore a high street store promoting them on Insta!

It’s a shop that sells overpriced chemicals, always hated it.

I would love to go in with a super soaker and spray it all over their displays !

@FranceTeam

I wonder why it is that when men want to be female, it is fine for them to keep the penis, but for females wanting to be men, they need to bind their natural bodies.

Girls who id as boys are already gnc. Gnc obviously aren’t feminine, so they aren’t doing girlhood right. They aren’t recognising that they need to be pretty walking holes for men to fuck. So off with their breasts. Hollow out their womb. Make sure they can’t have a women’s body to reproduce. Can’t have them breeding more gnc girls who also won’t accept their rightful place as fuck toys for men.

If males can’t train gnc women, like lesbians, to suck lady cock, then they train them to see themselves as male and have them volunteer to sterilise themselves instead. Their humiliation is all the more enjoyable for men when these young girls realise they did this to themselves. It buys their silence for life to realise they were complicit in their own demise. Same way abusers groom children to think they initiate abuse, their shame and guilt at their memories of ‘causing’ it buys their silence.

It’s why the little mermaid turns into foam at the end of the film. She chose to sacrifice her voice in exchange for legs. She opted to become the ultimate male fantasy without understanding she was doing that. Once she has legs (so a vagina) she can be fucked but can’t ever say no, because she gave away her voice in exchange. The humiliation and shame is so overwhelming when she realises she ceases to exist. (My interpretation obviously, but it’s also right!)

@BloodinGutters
Mmm... Might be a tad strong for AIBU.. ?

We're just talking about a soap shop overstepping here after all

@KurtWilde

Do any of you know any trans men? Because I do. Binding is often the only way to 'pass' as a man whilst waiting for gender assessment/gender reassignment surgery. I don't expect the majority of you to have even a tiny inkling of what a trans person goes through on a daily basis. Fortunately I know a few and have supported them through their transition. LUSH isn't promoting self harm, it's giving young people (not sure why people keep referring to children) a way to feel more comfortable and confident when out in public and at home in their chosen gender.

Are you suggesting that trans people need binders? You want them to be injured? That they can’t be considered real men if they have breasts? That is transphobic

As for ^ this ridiculous comment, trans men do NOT want breasts. They bind so they can wear T-shirt's and tops and pass better as men. They have to prove to the GIC that they're living full time as a man for X amount of time before they can even be put on the transition pathway. After adhering to the transition process for X amount of time they are finally given top surgery to have their breasts removed, so they can live more freely as a man and go shirtless on the beach/go swimming. So yes, of course they bind! Some of you have a very narrow minded world view.

Yes. My teen in a group of 7, has 5 trans friends. All under 16. I know this age group quite well actually. And I can assure you that this is not faux concern. This is actually happening. I see the consequences of this on a regular basis.

So, please provide also the research data that suggests that these five females under the age of 16 will ALL transition to adult trans men. So that if these young females will persist their entire lives as adult trans men.

How many of those 5 young women do YOU think is OK to sacrifice their health for to allow this to become normalised? How many of those under 16 year olds do you believe should be encouraged to do this via social media, via adults who believe in affirming only treatment to the contrary to even transwomen vagina surgeons who potentially will become head of WPATH, via brands like LUSH, to the detriment of their future breast and chest health?

Please tell us exactly how many you think are acceptable because you actually cannot tell us with any reliability WHICH of these particular young females will transition to be adult trans men and even how many of THEM will persist.

Please do not come onto a parenting forum and ask us snide questions as a gotcha. These children are OUR children and you can fucking believe that we care.

let me clarify my typos

Please tell us exactly how many you think are acceptable because you actually cannot tell us with any reliability WHICH of these particular young females will transition to be adult trans men and even how many of THEM will persist.

should be

Please tell us exactly how many you think are acceptable. Because you actually cannot tell us with any reliability WHICH of these particular young females will transition to be adult trans men and even then how many of THEM will persist past 5 - 10 years after medical transition.

I am actually scared now. I have read all these links and it looks like these binders can have a really bad effect on the health of girls. And destroy breast tissue

And then there are posters here who say that it is completely right to hand these out behind the back of parents, I mean wtf??

Isn’t it essential that if someone needs to bind for their MH that they get the medical and mental health support they need?

And what about the girls who decides that they are girls after all? With ruined breasts? And poor health??

And one poster saying that we cannot even discuss this because it is transphobic??? A soap shop is handing out something potentially damaging to young girls, behind the parents backs…. “But shhhhh…. Don’t talk about it because it is transphobic.”

Can you hear yourselves???

@KurtWilde

Do any of you know any trans men? Because I do. Binding is often the only way to 'pass' as a man whilst waiting for gender assessment/gender reassignment surgery. I don't expect the majority of you to have even a tiny inkling of what a trans person goes through on a daily basis. Fortunately I know a few and have supported them through their transition. LUSH isn't promoting self harm, it's giving young people (not sure why people keep referring to children) a way to feel more comfortable and confident when out in public and at home in their chosen gender.

Are you suggesting that trans people need binders? You want them to be injured? That they can’t be considered real men if they have breasts? That is transphobic

As for ^ this ridiculous comment, trans men do NOT want breasts. They bind so they can wear T-shirt's and tops and pass better as men. They have to prove to the GIC that they're living full time as a man for X amount of time before they can even be put on the transition pathway. After adhering to the transition process for X amount of time they are finally given top surgery to have their breasts removed, so they can live more freely as a man and go shirtless on the beach/go swimming. So yes, of course they bind! Some of you have a very narrow minded world view.

Have you seen double mastectomy scars? The minute any transman post mastectomy goes topless it’s obvious they are bio females. Dysphoria won’t be helped by everyone seeing their scars.

Have you followed Keira Bell case? Why don’t you listen to her views on this as she’s been through it first hand? What about the massive numbers of detransitioners? Even if a transman is happy once transitioning, what then happens if they’ve broken a rib or damaged lung capacity and physical health or damaged their skin so badly they can’t have successful double mastectomy? How was wearing the binder helpful then?

Look at the studies posted. 97% of those who wear binders report serious health problems from wearing them.

I hated my breasts. I hit puberty very young and they grew massive quickly, despite skinny frame otherwise. I hid under two sports bras and baggy T-shirt’s for the first couple of years. I would have been first in line for binders if I could have. Yet I’ve fed two babies, twins, for nearly three years with my breasts. The idea the harm I could have done to my breasts is horrifying. I have very complex and challenging children (autism). Meeting their very complex needs is something I fail short on plenty, it’s almost impossible to meet their needs when I’m on my own with them and I have no family outside of dh. The one thing I am 100% sure I did exactly right was breastfeeding, the difference it made in my sanity to be able to comfort them both at the same time by nursing was huge. It saved my relationship with them at times when they were up all night with teething pains, being able to nurse them both while I slept meant I was save to look after them alone the next day, meant I didn’t crash the car from exhaustion. Being able to tandem nurse when they were both toddlers who couldn’t self regulate from autism was a life saver for us. I dread to think how bad it might have been in our situation without that.

Yet I would have chopped my breasts off given the chance as a teen. Getting a binder from mainstream store would have legitimised my hatred of them more.

trans men do NOT want breasts

This makes no logical sense with other info we are given about transpeople that it's about identification, not physical body, there's no need to have surgery/make physical changes to be trans, and a transwoman with a penis is as much a woman as one who has had full reassignment surgery.

So I genuinely don't understand how it can be that 'trans men do not want breasts'. How can you make such sweeping generalisations about what transmen want, when we are told very firmly that we should not generalise about transwomen, particularly in terms of what appearance and physical traits they have or wish to have or change? The logical conclusion of transwomen being able to have penises and beards and/or neovaginas and breasts should be that transmen can have (and be happy with having) breasts, or might want top surgery. Identifying with the male gender shouldn't dictate that they change their bodies, and we should expect, as with transwomen, that an increasing number will not alter their appearance. But that doesn't seem to be happening if flattening breasts is normal practice.

At the end of the day it's a soap shop pushing harmful binders on teenage or preteen girls

It really has very, very little to do with helping trans people

Have you seen double mastectomy scars?

There is a tik tok going around with a person with double mastectomy scars that is standing with their top half naked telling people it feels like someone is pinching their nipples. The nipples that are no longer there. They are experiencing pain and discomfort.

But there are surgeons in the US that have on their web pages about the negative effects of wearing binders, that the damage won't matter to some people because they will be getting double mastectomies anyway.

This is children they are targeting with this.

@KurtWilde

It is exactly the opposite of transphobic to suggest that girls who are suffering from body dysmorphia to the extent that wish to permanently flatten their breasts should receive proper care from professional not equipment from a soap shop.

Do you have any idea how long it takes to access that care? How long waiting lists are to be assessed by a gender clinic? Is it any wonder young trans men and women take things into their own hands?

Do you know how long waiting lists are for getting kids assessed and treated for adhd?

2/3/4/5 years in some places.

Ritilin is the first line treatment under the nhs.

It’s not so easy to buy illegally, but it has a pretty similar chemical make up to cocain. That’s very easy to get, would need some calculation to get the dosage right but not so hard. So while waiting it’s ok to just buy that & self medicate children right?

It's strange, the unequal social expectations on each sex. One is expected to shave their legs, put make-up on, dye their hair when it begins to go grey, and the other just has to shower before work. I wonder if you know which sex is which?

It's a total turn-up for the books that currently sloganeering so strongly focuses on telling us that "women can have penises" and "trans women don't owe you femininity", but no-one seems to tell natal females that they don't owe the world androgyny or masculinity. Even though there might be a 20-30% chance of chronic pain after an elective mastectomy?

If women can have penises, why can't men have breasts?

Yet again, even when they're trans, the burden of complying with social expectations seems to be heavier on people of one sex than the other. Howstrange, that the world is being expected to mould itself to fit one set of people, and the other set of people are being expected to alter themselves to fit.

@PurgatoryOfPotholes

Yes, a very eloquent and thought provoking post.

They bind so they can wear T-shirt's and tops and pass better as men
How are you defining "men" here, specifically @KurtWilde?
For breasts to be at all relevant, your definition must include some notion of male-sexed bodies.
Think, if you can, about how transphobic this is and how it conflates sex and gender in a transphobic way.

Funny how transwomen can keep their knobs and call them "lady dicks" but young transmen have to flatten their breasts and have double mastectomies.

@EishetChayil

Funny how transwomen can keep their knobs and call them "lady dicks" but young transmen have to flatten their breasts and have double mastectomies.

Indeed.

And for anyone on this thread who thinks these are harmless, I taught a trans boy last year who was unable to sit comfortably at a school desk, was unable to walk the school site and do PE, was on constant pain and breathlessness, because of wearing a binder.

I reported it so many times to safeguarding - this child was in dire straits with breathing most of the time, but was met with a shrug and a 'what can we do'? attitude. Safeguarding crawls all over our pupils with ED's or pupils that used to 'cut', but this is seen as allowing pupils to express themselves.

FFS I despair.

@EishetChayil

Funny how transwomen can keep their knobs and call them "lady dicks" but young transmen have to flatten their breasts and have double mastectomies.

They don't HAVE to, they CHOOSE to. Just like a transwoman chooses to grow breasts through hormone therapy, and go through other forms of feminisation that can be painful and uncomfortable.

One of the most important things to a trans person is passing as the gender they identify as.

There are some people on this thread who could do with educating themselves.

I have been following this all afternoon and seen that the comments on their Instagram post are overwhelming negative yet anything that goes against this narrative is being deleted!

The outright transphobia and misandry on MN these days is absolutely abhorrent.

www.persuasion.community/p/keira-bell-my-story

Read this.