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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

AIBU to say that in practice sexting a person legally means consent to sex?

229 replies

ScrollingLeaves · 08/11/2021 22:05

To see why I am saying this watch Channel 4:Rape - Who’s on Trial which is on now

A woman flirted with a man in a pub.
Willingly went to toilets with him. Text messages has passed between them.
He shoved her against the wall and violently shoved fingers in her while kissing her.
He left because he heard someone coming in.
Watching CCTV it looked as though she was telling the truth ( police woman thought so).
Alleged victim very upset.

Then they found she’d sent a bra photo and a topless photo to him.
Police man said something like “you have to ask what sort of message was that giving”

Case dropped.

OP posts:
TimeForTeaAndG · 08/11/2021 22:08

Consent can be withdrawn at any time. Consenting to one act does not consent to all or even repeat of a previously consented act.

The police officer sounds like an arsehole.

HollyandIvyandAllThingsYule · 08/11/2021 22:10

It’s horrible isn’t it.

Kendodd · 08/11/2021 22:12

YANBU
I don't know why they don't just make rape legal, they might as well for all the use the law it to protect women.

takealettermsjones · 08/11/2021 22:16

I don't know whether your voting means is this the case or whether it should be the case, but in my personal opinion this is vile. Consent to sending sexy pictures does not equal consent to a physical act.

katienana · 08/11/2021 22:21

It absolutely does not imply consent, if I sent you a photo of my dog does that mean you can have my dog? No. If I sent a photo of my tits then all it means is that I want you to see my tits.
But.
They would never get a conviction because it doesn't fit with the profile of a perfect victim.

GroggyLegs · 08/11/2021 22:23

@TimeForTeaAndG

Consent can be withdrawn at any time. Consenting to one act does not consent to all or even repeat of a previously consented act.

The police officer sounds like an arsehole.

Things change, hot guy at the bar can become scary man in the blink of an eye. Something suggested as fun in theory, can then be rejected as a bad idea in practice.

But all hail the mighty man's 'right to sex' which must not be interfered with by mere women and their inconvenient feelings and boundaries.

Original poster
ScrollingLeaves · 08/11/2021 22:34

“takealettermsjones
I don't know whether your voting means is this the case or whether it should be the case, but in my personal opinion this is vile. Consent to sending sexy pictures does not equal consent to a physical act.“

I meant that it seems it is the case in practice. I do not agree that it should be so.

OP posts:
Original poster
ScrollingLeaves · 08/11/2021 22:37

There is a Channel 4 debate on now about the programme.

OP posts:
FallonCarringtonWannabe · 08/11/2021 22:43

It is the case in practice. A man would be incredibly unlucky to do any time for rape. It is a disgrace.

nosyupnorth · 08/11/2021 23:24

Yes, and it's something more people should be aware of. In a typical case with no other witness/lack of full audio & visual recording, then it comes down to he said/she said and a woman's claim to having said no is undermined if she's previously been encouraging and offered sexual interactions -- of course we all should be able to change our mind in the moment and have it respected but that isn't something which can be proven in courts which means that police and judges often have to look at the context and if there is room for doubt.

Midlifemusings · 08/11/2021 23:31

As others have said, you can withdraw consent at any time. You say that she willingly went to the toilets with him. What was that about? Had they texted something that made him think she was consenting to sexual activity in the toilets? What was her plan for the toilets?

It seems it wasn't just the texts, sexy pics but also an action of joining in him in a place where there was some kind of assumed purpose as to why they might go to the toilets together.

growinggreyer · 08/11/2021 23:33

@Midlifemusings

As others have said, you can withdraw consent at any time. You say that she willingly went to the toilets with him. What was that about? Had they texted something that made him think she was consenting to sexual activity in the toilets? What was her plan for the toilets?

It seems it wasn't just the texts, sexy pics but also an action of joining in him in a place where there was some kind of assumed purpose as to why they might go to the toilets together.

So, you don't think she could withdraw consent after she arrived at the toilets, then?
TractorAndHeadphones · 08/11/2021 23:35

Why is there CCTV in the toilets? Were they in the male or female toilets?

This whole thing doesn’t make sense

TractorAndHeadphones · 08/11/2021 23:37

@growinggreyer she could withdraw consent at anytime. In fact even if a woman went home to a man’s flat that’s not to say that she consents to anything that happens there! If she wants to kiss but he goes full on sex that’s obviously rape.

However in order to convict anybody of any crime there has to be proof beyond reasonable doubt. If the CCTV showed her resisting then that should be accepted as proof no matter what texts she sent him.

If however it wasn’t clear from the CCTV then it could go either way

Knownbyanothername · 09/11/2021 00:07

Whatever happened to the cup of tea analogy that came out a few years ago? Does that now not apply??

Totallydefeated · 09/11/2021 00:08

@Kendodd

YANBU I don't know why they don't just make rape legal, they might as well for all the use the law it to protect women.
Quite. There is practically a licence to rape in this country, and has been for years.
walksen · 09/11/2021 00:15

"In a typical case with no other witness/lack of full audio & visual recording, then it comes down to he said/she said and a woman's claim to having said no is undermined if she's previously been encouraging and offered sexual interactions"

This. You can withdraw consent at any time but the CPS police have to think about whether you can PROVE you did so.

There's also whether the alleged offender reasonably believed consent had been given and going to the toilets willingly after sending sexy photos to someone gives weight to the he said side of the argument

wobblywinelover · 09/11/2021 00:15

Never ever send sexy pics ladies, because if it all goes wrong and he rapes you, he'll get away with it, is the message i'm getting here. It's grim but maybe we need to get tough on this not sending pics or texts. Loads of men particularly on OLD are thriving off it and getting cheap thrills. It's not good news for women. We need to protect ourselves

Clementineapples · 09/11/2021 00:15

I haven’t seen it but if a woman sends a man topless photos and willingly goes to the toilet with him it’s not like they’re going for a nice cuppa and a chat.

Cheeeeislifenow · 09/11/2021 00:22

15Clementineapples

I haven’t seen it but if a woman sends a man topless photos and willingly goes to the toilet with him it’s not like they’re going for a nice cuppa and a chat.

So she deserves to be penetrated violently?

Clementineapples · 09/11/2021 00:26

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walksen · 09/11/2021 00:28

"So she deserves to be penetrated violently".

Deserves got nothing to do with it.
It does make it more difficult to convince members of the jury that penetration is NOT what she had in mind though.

EBearhug · 09/11/2021 00:28

I haven’t seen it but if a woman sends a man topless photos and willingly goes to the toilet with him it’s not like they’re going for a nice cuppa and a chat.

But he might have said something while they were alone which meant she no longer wanted it. And even if she was up for sex, that doesn't mean she was up for him violently assaulting her. Saying yes doesn't mean absolutely anything goes.

Mymapuddlington · 09/11/2021 00:29

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