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AIBU?

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Original poster

AIBU to say that in practice sexting a person legally means consent to sex?

229 replies

ScrollingLeaves · 08/11/2021 22:05

To see why I am saying this watch Channel 4:Rape - Who’s on Trial which is on now

A woman flirted with a man in a pub.
Willingly went to toilets with him. Text messages has passed between them.
He shoved her against the wall and violently shoved fingers in her while kissing her.
He left because he heard someone coming in.
Watching CCTV it looked as though she was telling the truth ( police woman thought so).
Alleged victim very upset.

Then they found she’d sent a bra photo and a topless photo to him.
Police man said something like “you have to ask what sort of message was that giving”

Case dropped.

OP posts:
MimiDaisy11 · 09/11/2021 05:36

Unfortunately it does seem in practice a lot of weight is put on texts etc. I remember a horrible gang rape was dropped as the victim had shared some sexual fantasies previously with a defendant. Despite the fact that texts showed on the day of rape she thought she was going to meet just him.

EnrouteNOTonroute · 09/11/2021 05:46

@Jarnss no one is defending him. I believe her 100% too, but looking at the objective evidence this case would not get near a courtroom.

Mybalconyiscracking · 09/11/2021 05:51

It’s about evidence, at base most rape cases are her word against his, things have to be proven “beyond reasonable doubt”.
If I send someone a nude shot, then that can definitely be seen as evidence that I wanted them at some point, it is then going to make it that much harder to prove that I changed my mind later.

walksen · 09/11/2021 06:07

"He was a fucking rapist"

in law, what he did here was sexual assault, not rape although it may have ended up that way of not Interrupted

No one is saying it is acceptable but in this scenario it would be incredible difficult to convict him due to lack of evidence.

Deserves has nothing to do with it. Was his conduct criminal. Yes. Is he likely to be punished for it - no.

What's right and moral/ legal and what happens are not always connected are they?

If I forget to lock my front door I don't deserve to be burgled and the person who steals is still a thief. It's highly likely they will get away with it and insurance claim voided to boot

Treefloss · 09/11/2021 06:09

@Mymapuddlington

Woman and man flirt and go to the toilets together to have sex. Woman finds the experience unpleasant so cries rape.

That’s what it boils down to in my opinion. Which arguably lessons the cases for real victims.

Maybe she did go into the toilets for sex, I expect she didn't go in to be shoved against a wall and violently penetrated by his hand though. Consent doesn't cover every sexual activity, and of course the other likelihood she withdrew consent for a myriad of reasons.
DBI78 · 09/11/2021 06:28

Watch the Cup of Tea video. Women should not have to alter behaviour or fear men. We are not things for men to have sec with.

flippertyop · 09/11/2021 06:40

I think a woman in her position knows she is putting herself at risk in that situation. I am not saying she shouldn't be able to withdraw consent but I am saying after those texts messages and then going into the toilet with him - that's poor judgement on her part

Emmelina · 09/11/2021 06:44

As far as I understand it, you can be in the middle of the physics act itself and change your mind. What a horrible viewpoint this officer has! A naughty pic is a lot different to physically doing anything.

TeachesOfPeaches · 09/11/2021 06:44

If you don't hand over your phone then your case is likely to get dropped

www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/society/2020/jun/17/police-in-england-and-wales-dropping-inquiries-when-victims-refuse-to-hand-in-phones

NeverDropYourMoonCup · 09/11/2021 06:51

If it's deemed consent, then any man who sexts another woman or agrees to meet her has already cheated and can be divorced on the grounds of adultery, even if he doesn't actually do anything physical.

Let's see if that stands up in a court. Stuff no fault divorces or unreasonable behaviour, divorce them on the grounds of adultery because they've thought about it.

Somehow, I don't think many police officers would like that when it's their own marriages.

picklemewalnuts · 09/11/2021 07:03

Those of you who think that going into the toilets with a bloke you've been flirting with is consent to sex, what would he have to do to cross the line in your opinion?

Once you are there, in the toilets with a man you've flirted with, you say he has implied consent and it's all systems go. He can shove his fingers in her, push her against a wall... can he grab her throat? Penetrate with no condom? Do anal? Call he a bitch and slap her a few times? Where's the line, in your opinion? What did she 'not' consent to when she went in the toilets?

See, if I were a man, I'd assume she was consenting to sex she would enjoy and I'd make sure she enjoyed it- I'd follow her lead. It's a conversation not a monologue.

neededafart · 09/11/2021 07:14

Maybe she was consenting initially.

Consent can be withdrawn at ANY point. Before or during sex. Young girls and boys MUST be aware of this.

Naunet · 09/11/2021 07:52

@Mymapuddlington

Woman and man flirt and go to the toilets together to have sex. Woman finds the experience unpleasant so cries rape.

That’s what it boils down to in my opinion. Which arguably lessons the cases for real victims.

Jesus Christ, so you think once a woman agrees to sex with someone, the man can then do whatever he wants and she has no right to object?
Naunet · 09/11/2021 08:13

You’re right OP, it’s fucked up. I’ve seen a case dropped purely because she smiled at him and looked happy BEFORE he raped her. It’s a sick, sick joke.

FrankButchersDickieBow · 09/11/2021 08:15

@Clementineapples

I haven’t seen it but if a woman sends a man topless photos and willingly goes to the toilet with him it’s not like they’re going for a nice cuppa and a chat.
Disgusting. No wonder women are not believed and rape culture is so prominent with attitudes like this.
Skyla2005 · 09/11/2021 08:21

@Clementineapples

I haven’t seen it but if a woman sends a man topless photos and willingly goes to the toilet with him it’s not like they’re going for a nice cuppa and a chat.
She is still entitled to change her mind at whatever point. No is no even if she started off saying yes
Clementineapples · 09/11/2021 08:41

She is still entitled to change her mind at whatever point.

Where’s the evidence of that though?

Kendodd · 09/11/2021 08:53

As others have said, you can withdraw consent at any time

Nice idea. In reality, not true, you just get raped and then if anything, the man ends up being viewed as the victim of women lying about him.

Kendodd · 09/11/2021 08:59

I cannot believe the rape apologists on this thread.

I can.
And NOTHING is going to change for women while that view is so widespread.

Even those upthread saying that this women went to the toilet with the intention of having sex because she sent some texts. That wouldn't even be my assumption, I would assume she went for a snog. Even if she did intend to have sex she can change her mind at ANY point. This is a message we have to drum into our son's if, quite frankly, we don't want them to grow up to be rapists.

OhWhyNot · 09/11/2021 09:06

You want to know why we have such low rates of rape convictions

Attitudes such as this :

Mymapuddlington

Woman and man flirt and go to the toilets together to have sex
Woman finds the experience unpleasant so cries rape

That’s what it boils down to in my opinion. Which arguably lessons the cases for real victims

Kendodd · 09/11/2021 09:06

Another message I'll be drumming into my son is that falling over drunk women CANNOT properly consent to sex. If you can't go into Phones4You and sign a contract for a fucking iPhone, you can't consent to sex.

HarrietsChariot · 09/11/2021 09:10

@Kendodd

Another message I'll be drumming into my son is that falling over drunk women CANNOT properly consent to sex. If you can't go into Phones4You and sign a contract for a fucking iPhone, you can't consent to sex.
A 16 year old can't sign a contract for a fucking iPhone but can legally consent to sex.
Kendodd · 09/11/2021 09:17

Well you tell your son whatever you want. I'll be telling mine women that women, off their faces, can't give proper consent.

Mymapuddlington · 09/11/2021 09:18

You want to know why we have such low rates of rape convictions

It’s a he said she said argument. When did she say no? The facts are she sent topless photos, flirted and consented to go to the toilet with him. Implying she gave consent willingly and happily. She is then saying she changed her mind.
You’re all happy to condemn a man for sexual assault (not rape as intercourse was not part of it) based on what she has said.
Shouldn’t be surprised really, mn does hate men on the whole.

MyButteredBread · 09/11/2021 09:33

Consent can be withdrawn for any reason, it isn't a fucking contract.

This attitude always, always baffles me:

putting herself at risk in that situation.

Where is the risk coming from, exactly? Who has created the situation that resulted in sexual assault? The man. The man is the risk, the man has created the dangerous situation, through his actions. The man.

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