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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To despise being called ‘cis’?

999 replies

Ostryga · 07/11/2021 19:50

I’m not ‘cis’. I’m not ‘cisgendered’. I’m literally a woman. I’ve just read a guardian article that calls women seeking IVF cisgendered.

Why????

OP posts:
PurpleOkapi · 08/11/2021 01:51

Cis-gender literally relates to a person whose sense of personal identity and gender corresponds with their birth sex. So you are female at birth and your personal identity is female. So for you, both align. The very definition of cis.

I don't have a "sense of personal identity" regarding sex or gender, and if I did, I would be entirely unwilling to share it with everyone who asks me to check a box for M or F. Being a woman is no more an "identity" than my height, weight, or eye color are identities. These things are facts, not opinions. When the doctor asks for my weight, he means the number that's actually on the scale, not the number I wish was on the scale. No one seems to think any of those other physical traits need special carve-outs for what one wishes were true versus what's actually true. So why this one?

tillytown · 08/11/2021 02:56

Cis-gender literally relates to a person whose sense of personal identity and gender corresponds with their birth sex.

Calling yourself cis means you agree that you are lower than men, that you believe all the sexist stereotypes about women are true, and that you welcome all the sexual harassment, lower pay, and sex discrimination that comes with being female. It's dumb. If someone wants to call themself a trans women or trans men, that's great, but to insist women other themselves and call themselves cis is the purest form of misogyny.

GAHgamel · 08/11/2021 03:33

@scarpa : They didn't quote a single trans woman in the piece - despite a trans woman on twitter saying she'd been interviewed, they didn't use her contribution - but they did publish the contribution of a sexual predator who calls for the lynching of trans women.

You didn't actually read the piece, did you? That's just not true. There are both direct quotes and indirect quotes from transwomen in the piece, and it does your credibility no good if you're just going to regurgitate talking points from twitter rather than actually engaging with the material in question.

StardewMelons · 08/11/2021 04:37

I really feel for the people deeply offended by this Hmm ... It is a descriptive word usually used in Trans conversations (Male or Female).
I as a born female don't get offended at a word that describes that. I Am compassionate enough to realise that Trans people, male or female, trying to live their lives might not want to be reffered to as a "Trans man/woman" , and if you look in to what most trans people go through, (realise you probably interact with them on a regular basis and do not know) , you might alter your mindset. .. I used to feel like a lot of these comments and I'm ashamed of it.... Usually trans people like to mind their own buisness, blend in, not tell people to call themselves CIS, it is the SJW outsiders and attention seekers that tarnish them. People get drawn in to propaganda so easily

loislovesstewie · 08/11/2021 05:31

I agree with you; just to put my two pennorth in.

Mummyoflittledragon · 08/11/2021 05:52

@Ionlydomassiveones

Female biology, and the functions thereof, is not a ‘privilege’. It’s a source of oppression and vulnerability as recognised by the Equality Act.

How misogynist, ludicrous and absurd does an ideology have to get where you have females, chastising other females for flaunting the ‘privilege’ of simply being born female? We can’t ‘identify’ out of rape, sexual harassment, sexual assault, menstural issues, birthing issues, DV, FGM, lower pay, lack of freedom from harassment on the streets, domestic slavery etc etc. These are WOMEN suffering. Because of their biology and physiology. It’s not a fucking privilege.

And it’s not about trans. It’s about recognising that women are by far, in terms of numbers, the more oppressed group, so it’s women we should be protecting and prioritising in any fundamental clash of rights.

@Suspiciousmind20 I truly hope you have read and understood posts like these. Unfortunately women are only the ones expected to #bekind, to step aside and check our privilege. This is basically what the training has done for you.

Yes, it must be hard for the trans sexual woman, who has been going about her life for years. But the new trans rights activists want to take everything away from us. TWAW is designed to make trans women the real women and us cis. They are taking our language away and using our sense of kindness and caring against us.

Women is being written out as a descriptor and reducing us to our body parts. Try searching for example for HPV in women and you will get webmd advice for vagina haters. Do the same for men and you get HPV for men. This is just one example. The list is endless.

Rape crisis centres and prisons are accommodating trans women in many parts of the world. As a result, women are being locked up in women’s prisons and being raped and abused by males identifying as transwomen. The answer has not been to stop this practice and move the offender back to the male population but to silence the women, to offer condoms and the MAP.

We are also being told it is offensive to discuss female genital mutilation. We are being told we are privileged for having periods. We are being told to stop discuss anything to do with being a woman so as to not offend biological males. The same biological males, who pissed on a woman’s door, intimidated her for over 3 years and hounded her out of a job simply for saying that trans people are trans and should be offered the same protections as everyone else. Professor Kathleen Stock btw.

TRA’s are telling us ‘welcome to your erasure”. This is what they mean. They want to reduce us to uterus havers, gestators and menstruators and take the word woman for themselves.

Oblomov21 · 08/11/2021 05:54

Interesting link.

MyOtherProfile · 08/11/2021 06:24

I Am compassionate enough to realise that Trans people, male or female, trying to live their lives might not want to be reffered to as a "Trans man/woman"

Oh the irony!

Arrowheart · 08/11/2021 06:30

@Tal45

There's woman and transwoman. Cis is not required.
Yes!!! This!!!
Arrowheart · 08/11/2021 06:35

@Butchyrestingface

Article also refers to "people with wombs".

Gosh, if only the English language had come up with a name for that.

Brilliant!!!!
Waxonwaxoff0 · 08/11/2021 06:55

I wouldn't describe myself as cis in a conversation but being called cis does not offend me. I really don't care.

MareofBeasttown · 08/11/2021 07:02

I am so thankful for MN and the clarity of the posters who have helped me work out why I hate being called cis. In real life expressing any of these thoughts will result in me being called transphobic.

Thefartingsofaofdenmarkstreet · 08/11/2021 07:08

Cis-gender literally relates to a person whose sense of personal identity and gender corresponds with their birth sex. So you are female at birth and your personal identity is female. So for you, both align. The very definition of cis.

What is a 'female personal identity'? What does that look like? Do you just mean a female who doesn't have gender dysphoria, or is it something more than that?

sanluca · 08/11/2021 07:10

The point you are failing to grasp so spectacularly, is that there are many different people, with many different body parts and many different ways to combine them

This made me laugh. As if humans are a collection of lego bricks you can out together however you like.... humans actually don't have different ways of combining body parts that have to do with sex. There are two ways: male and female. When talking about IVF and infertility all that matters is the sexes of the couple involved. The issue is that there is a push for 'woman' and 'lesbian' to mean human of either sex. And then you have to do one of the following:

add 'cis' and 'trans' to indicate what sexes a couple are, as only a 'cis' woman is female and just woman could mean male human as well. This pisses off probably 60-70% of 51% of the human population

Or

Use woman as the word for female human being and piss of 1-5% of the human population.

How is that for 'privilige' that despite pissed off women are in the majority, the choice is still to not piss off the tiny minority. My guess the males in that minority and the sheer amount of aggression you get if not complying to the new meaning of womanly words tips the scales.

Evesgarden · 08/11/2021 07:14

Yes I hate it too. I find it offensive that a group of people have decided to give me name I didn't ask for or will call myself. Can you imagine this being allowed for any other demographic?

Thefartingsofaofdenmarkstreet · 08/11/2021 07:16

On the Lily Cade BBC thing...what she said was absolutely disgusting.

But she was only used in the segment of the article about the origins of the phrase 'cotton ceiling'. The reporter wanted to speak to Drew Deveaux, the transwoman porn actor who coined the phrase (for those who don't know, 'cotton ceiling' is a play on 'glass ceiling' but instead the cotton but refers to the gusset ofa females underwear).

Drew was unable to be contacted, so instead the reporter spoke to Lily Cade, who had worked alongside Drew, had rejected working with Drew when she found out they werea transwoman, and believes after this Drew came up with the 'cotton ceiling' thing.

Cades bit has now been removed from the article and the article still stands up well and is valid.

People like Owen Jones who were very upset about what Lily Cade wrote didn't seem to give a shiny shit when similar stuff was being personally directed at people like JK Rowling. Apparently she was making herself a 'martyr'.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 08/11/2021 07:17

This is a really good blog on the subject.

liberationcollective.wordpress.com/2012/06/08/a-feminist-critique-of-cisgender/

Ostryga · 08/11/2021 07:18

@PurgatoryOfPotholes that is a great blog, thanks for linking!

OP posts:
Evesgarden · 08/11/2021 07:19

@Thefartingsofaofdenmarkstreet

On the Lily Cade BBC thing...what she said was absolutely disgusting.

But she was only used in the segment of the article about the origins of the phrase 'cotton ceiling'. The reporter wanted to speak to Drew Deveaux, the transwoman porn actor who coined the phrase (for those who don't know, 'cotton ceiling' is a play on 'glass ceiling' but instead the cotton but refers to the gusset ofa females underwear).

Drew was unable to be contacted, so instead the reporter spoke to Lily Cade, who had worked alongside Drew, had rejected working with Drew when she found out they werea transwoman, and believes after this Drew came up with the 'cotton ceiling' thing.

Cades bit has now been removed from the article and the article still stands up well and is valid.

People like Owen Jones who were very upset about what Lily Cade wrote didn't seem to give a shiny shit when similar stuff was being personally directed at people like JK Rowling. Apparently she was making herself a 'martyr'.

This! Owen has got fuck all to say about the hordes of men issuing death threats and physically assaulting women. Hideous woman hating man!
Thefartingsofaofdenmarkstreet · 08/11/2021 07:21

@Evesgarden

Yes I hate it too. I find it offensive that a group of people have decided to give me name I didn't ask for or will call myself. Can you imagine this being allowed for any other demographic?
Yes, it wouldn't be OK forme to take on all the stereotypes associated with black people and then declare myself 'transblack'. And then make actual black people call themselves 'cis black' and tell them they have 'cis priviledge'.

It's a bit like the Netflix Dave Chapelle thing. Several white males getting to claim they are 'more oppessed' than a black man, because of how they feel inside, in some kind of oppression Olympics.

TheKeatingFive · 08/11/2021 07:23

Trans people identify more strongly with the transient, socially constructed set of stereotypes that doesn’t align with their sex.

So dismantle the stereotypes then, rather than perpetuate this idea that people 'don't align' with their gender and should change that.

In this case the ‘decoupling’ comes from a trans man giving birth, so yes, you are implying that this trans man wanting to have a baby is sinister

The decoupling is not necessary being argued by the trans man giving birth, so no.

Thefartingsofaofdenmarkstreet · 08/11/2021 07:33

Trans people identify more strongly with the transient, socially constructed set of stereotypes that doesn’t align with their sex.

OK. But why does that mean that transwomen, who are male, should be allowed into female prisons, refuges, hospital wards, sports? Why? Because they don't align with society's bullshit stereotypes about men and women? Confused

Blueskip · 08/11/2021 07:36

@thatonehasalittlecar you say There is a difference between saying ‘biological males cannot gestate’ and ‘males can’t gestate’ because for me, a biological female can be male, if male is defined not in terms of biology / sex but in terms of gender / social stereotypes.

So you acknowledge that gender identity is based on gender/social stereotypes. Don't you think it would be better to challenge regressive gender stereotypes rather than collude in the fiction that if you don't conform to gender stereotypes you should magically change sex?

Also your "belief" that a biological female can be male is just that. A belief. It is not fact. A biological female can only be male if you change the meaning of the word male to include female. That makes no sense. The same as trying to change the word woman to mean women and men who want to be women.

Waitwhat23 · 08/11/2021 07:37

Owen obsessively monitors this website and regularly posts screenshots of discussions on Twitter. I'm guessing, given the ratio, this won't be one of those discussions.

MyOtherProfile · 08/11/2021 07:40

Don't you think it would be better to challenge regressive gender stereotypes rather than collude in the fiction that if you don't conform to gender stereotypes you should magically change sex?
@Blueskip I feel like I want to get this printed on t shirts!