To think Dumbledore was a massive cheater?

[Slytherine]

Just finished watching the first Harry Potter film on TV and forgot about the injustice for the Slytherins at the end. I have changed my name in solidarity.

So the Slytherins get the most House Points (presumably fairly as most of the professors at Hogwarts could barely hide their disdain for Slytherin House so wouldn’t have been dishing out points to them for no reason) and are sat there enjoying their win of the House Cup, and celebrating with the room decorated in their House colours, and then former Gryffindor Dumbledore just decides (even though the school year was officially over!!) to throw out an unreasonable amount of points to Harry, Hermione and Ron drawing them level with Slytherin, and then a further 10 points to Neville pushing Gryffindor over the edge and into the win. And then, just to rub salt into the wound, publicly humiliated them by casting a spell to replace all the Slytherin colours with the Gryffindor colours and gives them the award instead and they all celebrate, including him and most of the teachers, and Slytherin has to sit there and just accept it??

AIBU to think WTAF and that was very unfair and he was biased by doing this and it’s no wonder the Slytherins were openly hostile and dismissive of him after that!? I’d be fuming if I were a Slytherin student and if I were a parent of a Slytherin student I’d be marching up to the school myself and having a word with the head.

[quote Lillith111]@DrSbaitso He didn't infiltrate the Death Eaters to bring them down. He genuinely was a Death Eater until they wanted to kill Lily. He called her a Mudblood and hung out with people at school who were hateful towards muggleborns. His love was more obsessional than loving. He wanted her, he didn't want her to be happy or else he would have quit the pureblood crap, made up with James and been a good friend. If there was a thread on here about someone who was hateful, obsessive, bullying and controlling they would rightfully be told it was bad[/quote]
If he'd been a less flawed, damaged and lonely person, he might have been more honourable...

James was an arsehole. He threatened to strip Snape naked from the waist down while hung upside down in front of a load of people. I can't blame Snape for not wanting to "make up" after that (were they ever friends to start with?).

@Drsbaitso how did the slytherins "fight dirty?"

I've always thought the same OP. Also in the same book quirrel comes in shouting "troll in the dungeons" and Dumbleton sends all the students to their common rooms for "safety" including the quarter of the kids whose common room is in the dungeons!

A PP said about hermione and Ravenclaw - I've always thought that she was a bit of an odd presentation of an extremely clever child. She reminds me of the kids who always do really well through hard work up until about GCSE but is then eclipsed by the kids who have real passions for things. She just seems very into learning facts off by heart but very little wider curiosity- she pooh poohs the idea of wizarding children books being of any use for example. The smartest kids in my school were the ones who mucked about in the earliest years because they found everything so easy they couldn't be bothered and focused their time on their own interests instead. I'm wondering if ravenclaw is instead of a house of geeky know it alls fighting for the best marks, made up of kids who are passionate about completely esoteric magic that isn't even taught at hogwarts, experimenting with their own spells rather rather learning standard ones perfectly, or mathematical types into arithmancy, or really funny witty kids, creative kids who are into drawing and music, or wizarding chess, like Ron.

After all the ravenclaw we get to know best is luna who is as unlike hernione as it is possible to be. According to hp wiki professor Trelawney was also in ravenclaw. Just think it gives them a bit more personality than "the house full of smart kids but there's actually a girl in the other house whos smarter than any of them" thus making a quarter of the students main personality trait completely reductive!

"Bit of a dick" = joining the actual wizard nazis.

I don't think anyone can say that Snape redeems himself by having a go at Dumbledore. We all know Dumbledore is as unreliable a child rearer as... well... a forgetful old man who buggers off on side quests when the world is in danger (yes I know the side quests are the horcruxes but jeezo Dumbledore, maybe let McGonagall know what you are up to, she's the real grown up at Hogwarts).

Minerva rules, she should have been in charge. She would have killed Voldemort, stopped Dumbledore leaving Harry on the doorstep to live under the stairs, oh all sorts.

@Glassofshloer he was a willing member of the death eaters. Didn't care when people were tortured to insanity. Didn't care that Lily's husband and child would be killed. If you're happy for someones child to be murdered you don't love them.
His love was obsession and she didn't love him back. He only switched sides because he felt personally aggrieved that Voldemort didn't respect his request.
He was also a bully to the students he taught.

Calm down Lucius!

You're completely right, it was a messed up thing to do, as was putting all the children of blood Supremacists together to be housemates. You'd think Dumbledore would have thought of ways to make the children of bigots more exposed to muggle borns and muggles to help educate them in tolerance.

@WheelieBinPrincess

No one cares about Hufflepuff do they 😂

They have great social skills and are empathic. That's often more important in the world than brains or bravery.

@Waahingwashingwashing

If Harry was a horcrux - the one that Voldemort never meant to make - could the Dursley’s have been horrible because they were living with a horcrux? Look at what it did to Ron having the thing around his neck

Omg, what? 🤯

At one point the Slytherin password was pure blood.

@Bluntness100

I think you are over thinking it, it’s made up you know.

Lol at this. That's all Eng. Lit and drama degrees done for then!

If Harry was a horcrux - the one that Voldemort never meant to make - could the Dursley’s have been horrible because they were living with a horcrux? Look at what it did to Ron having the thing around his neck

I've heard that theory before, but I don't think there is any implication that the Dursleys suddenly turned into utter arseholes on Harry's arrival.

In answer to the OP - this is partly why the HP books are so good. The characters are flawed, including the goodies. Hogwarts is flawed. The rules are flawed. Just like in reals schools, but in different ways. JKR makes it clear at various points in the books (particularly through a speech by the sorting hat) that sorting the kids into houses and potentially setting them against each other isn't necessarily a good idea. It is made clear that not all Slytherins are necessarily bad. Dumbledore is busy trying to sort th8ngs for the greater good. He doesn't always get it right,he has to make harsh choices, and sometimes he's not a perfect headmaster. He has quite a lot on his plate, all things considered. And he's very very old.

And Dumbledore also possessed all 3 of the deathly hallows....and yet didn't use them (apart from the wand) for their ultimate power.

Like all the characters, flawed. Scarred by his youth!

James behaved like a twat and should have apologised. And Snape had a fucked childhood. But you can't love someone and be part of a group that believes them to be inferior. James was an arsehole but Snape was part of a hateful terrorist organisation

Snape fell in with the crowd who accepted him.

Hermione should have been in Ravenclaw.
Ron should have been in Hufflepuff.
Harry should have been in Slytherin.

They all asked the hat to be in Gryffindor.

@ParishSpinster

"Bit of a dick" = joining the actual wizard nazis.

I don't think anyone can say that Snape redeems himself by having a go at Dumbledore. We all know Dumbledore is as unreliable a child rearer as... well... a forgetful old man who buggers off on side quests when the world is in danger (yes I know the side quests are the horcruxes but jeezo Dumbledore, maybe let McGonagall know what you are up to, she's the real grown up at Hogwarts).

Minerva rules, she should have been in charge. She would have killed Voldemort, stopped Dumbledore leaving Harry on the doorstep to live under the stairs, oh all sorts.

But Dumbledore says his mother's sacrifice for Harry was a powerful bit of old magic and that protection was sealed when her blood relative (sister Prunella) takes orphaned baby Harry into her home to live. That protection remained whilst HP lived there/could call it home or turned 16. So perhaps a good job Minerva didn't get to make that decision.

Same way that the utter shit that was Potter Snr just happened to get with the 'perfect sister' as described by Mrs Dursley - two obnoxious Golden Children having the ultimate Golden Child.

Let's not forget that all the good characters are appalled by the use of mudblood but have zero problem with just writing off a class of people who they view as worthless with as "muggles".

Unconscious racist pricks

Someone once pointed out to me that the best parents were the Malfoys. They were willing to put Draco above everything. Definitely, an interesting view.

Ok well neither of them are that great if you look at isolated actions.
Harry’s dad was the school bully.
Dumbledore was manipulative and cold.
Snape was a Death Eater.
Ron is petulant and uses other girls to make Hermione jealous, he also attempts to cheat at Quidditch & abandons Harry & Hermione in the 6th book
Harry hits on Ron’s little sister behind his back & swans about full of self importance
Even Hagrid keeps murderous spiders as pets & almost kills people on several occasions

I mean nobody is coming out of it well

Apart from Mrs Weasley of course

The thing that always gets me about the films is that they made Snape and Sirius and Harrys parents so much older than they were meant to be. In the books Snape would have been about 30 when Harry started school. Which means that when Harrys parents died he would have been about 20/21.

So I could almost forgive his mental attitude towards Lily prior to this as some sort of teenage obsession.... But to then carry that forward for a decade and bully the son of your bully just because he reminds you of said bully (that you effectively had a hand in killing) is just pretty unforgivable in my mind.

You are absolutely right though OP, total dick move by Dumbledore at that feast and many other occasions throughout the series. McGonagall genuinely should have been Head and should have overhauled certain elements of the teaching staff!!

Also...... Just bloody well give people Veritaserum to find out whether they are guilty of being a death eater or blowing up a street of people... Unless there is a completely undiscussed cure to this making it unreliable, this was never touched upon in the books of course.

@Morgan12

Snape fell in with the crowd who accepted him.

Hermione should have been in Ravenclaw.
Ron should have been in Hufflepuff.
Harry should have been in Slytherin.

They all asked the hat to be in Gryffindor.

Disagree. Gryffindor is the best fit for each. Harry is not ambitious- hates the attention. Is hot headed/impulsive/brave. Hermione is too rigid in her thinking to be Ravenclaw. Knowledge/wit/learning isn't just reading books - like when she wouldn't use the half blood prince's updates. Ron was brave. Admittedly has some hufflepuff qualities but not hard working as he's always slacking and copying off Hermione.

[quote thevassal]@Drsbaitso how did the slytherins "fight dirty?"

I've always thought the same OP. Also in the same book quirrel comes in shouting "troll in the dungeons" and Dumbleton sends all the students to their common rooms for "safety" including the quarter of the kids whose common room is in the dungeons!

A PP said about hermione and Ravenclaw - I've always thought that she was a bit of an odd presentation of an extremely clever child. She reminds me of the kids who always do really well through hard work up until about GCSE but is then eclipsed by the kids who have real passions for things. She just seems very into learning facts off by heart but very little wider curiosity- she pooh poohs the idea of wizarding children books being of any use for example. The smartest kids in my school were the ones who mucked about in the earliest years because they found everything so easy they couldn't be bothered and focused their time on their own interests instead. I'm wondering if ravenclaw is instead of a house of geeky know it alls fighting for the best marks, made up of kids who are passionate about completely esoteric magic that isn't even taught at hogwarts, experimenting with their own spells rather rather learning standard ones perfectly, or mathematical types into arithmancy, or really funny witty kids, creative kids who are into drawing and music, or wizarding chess, like Ron.

After all the ravenclaw we get to know best is luna who is as unlike hernione as it is possible to be. According to hp wiki professor Trelawney was also in ravenclaw. Just think it gives them a bit more personality than "the house full of smart kids but there's actually a girl in the other house whos smarter than any of them" thus making a quarter of the students main personality trait completely reductive![/quote]
@thevassal that makes so much more sense than just ravenclaws are smart. Luna seems to know more about magical beasts than any one else, except maybe Hagrid. And she is passionate about her interests, after all no one else knew where to find the lost diadem.

YABU. Snape is the only teacher to so outrageously and openly favour one house. The points were earned fair and square! Tough cheddar cheese Slytherin...

In answer to the OP - this is partly why the HP books are so good. The characters are flawed, including the goodies.

Exactly. Harry learning that his father, who he thought was a hero, could also be pretty unpleasant was important.
No one in the books is perfect, and no one is all evil (except Voldemort I guess). Obviously we only see the evil side of most death eaters, but the books were long enough without showing fully rounded character for all of them. But Narcissa saves Harry in the end because of her love for her son, mirroring Lily saving Harry, and the power of a mother’s love (or love in general) not being something understood by Voldemort.
And Lucius and Narcissa don’t fight at all in the final battle, they just look for Draco. Doesn’t make up for all the other people they killed of course, but it’s part of the general (somewhat cheesy) love is greater than hate message.

Also Ron couldnt be in hufflepuff, he abandoned Hermione and Harry. Also he treated Lavender badly when they were together. One of hufflepuffs qualities is loyalty which he is seriously lacking in. He copies off Hermione so isn't hard working either.

He doesn't fit there at all! Hufflepuff is the most awesome and underrated house! No room for Ron in here!

This compilation on YouTube is quite good at explaining Snape...