To think Dumbledore was a massive cheater?

[Slytherine]

Just finished watching the first Harry Potter film on TV and forgot about the injustice for the Slytherins at the end. I have changed my name in solidarity.

So the Slytherins get the most House Points (presumably fairly as most of the professors at Hogwarts could barely hide their disdain for Slytherin House so wouldn’t have been dishing out points to them for no reason) and are sat there enjoying their win of the House Cup, and celebrating with the room decorated in their House colours, and then former Gryffindor Dumbledore just decides (even though the school year was officially over!!) to throw out an unreasonable amount of points to Harry, Hermione and Ron drawing them level with Slytherin, and then a further 10 points to Neville pushing Gryffindor over the edge and into the win. And then, just to rub salt into the wound, publicly humiliated them by casting a spell to replace all the Slytherin colours with the Gryffindor colours and gives them the award instead and they all celebrate, including him and most of the teachers, and Slytherin has to sit there and just accept it??

AIBU to think WTAF and that was very unfair and he was biased by doing this and it’s no wonder the Slytherins were openly hostile and dismissive of him after that!? I’d be fuming if I were a Slytherin student and if I were a parent of a Slytherin student I’d be marching up to the school myself and having a word with the head.

I have to admit though, as an adult I find the whole life Harry had at the Dursleys rather disturbing. How no one noticed. Unless they were Confunded...

I’ve been wondering about that for a while too. That Harry’s primary school teachers weren’t concerned about him always wearing Dudley’s old clothes & broken glasses. Although I suppose it says something that the Dursleys even bothered to get him glasses.

Harry was born July 1980 and I was born in the September. I don’t think safeguarding was too hot in 1980s primary schools!

@phonetica

One thing I don’t really get is the whole ‘reformed character’ thing for James Potter considering how young him and Lily are, they are married and expecting Harry at the grand old age of NINETEEN. So about 3 years on from him being a terrible bully and horrible person to her husband. I don’t understand why they weren’t written as a few years older at time of marriage and having Harry.

James' flaws were being arrogant and obnoxious. There's no indication that he became an angel . He matured enough to not openly flaunt it, but that was it. Biographical information in the wider world shows that he continued to get into trouble long after leaving school, including a screaming argument with the Dursleys but that's not part of the books so irrelvant.

His main characterisation was courage in defying the Dark Lord and protecting his son. The same way Lily's was being courageous + object of Snape's affection, and James' wife.

Not quite caricatures but not fully explored either. They had a prupose and served it. Unlike Dumbledore and Snape

@GuyFawkesDay

And Dumbledore also possessed all 3 of the deathly hallows....and yet didn't use them (apart from the wand) for their ultimate power.

Like all the characters, flawed. Scarred by his youth!

He never possessed them all simultaneously.

• He has the wand throughout
• He has the cloak only until he gives it to Harry (in Harry's first year I think)
• He gets the resurrection stone at the beginning of Half Blood Prince (and cursed himself in the process).

I know dumbledore did raise Harry for slaughter, he knew Harry might have to die and ultimately trained him as his solider. He also knew he had snape because of Lily and I've wondered before if dumbeldore allowed that (James and Lily's deaths) to happen 'for the greater good' in some way. He was a very very flawed character but he did die for the cause in the end.

He did also love his students, all his students. The scene with malfoy in the tower and making sure snape killed him so malfoy didn't have dumbeldores death as a mark on his life. He cared about him and wanted to offer him a way out, even though dumbeldore clearly disliked Lucius.

Dumbeldore has a lot of loss in his life, including the loss of his greatest Grindelwald, that can't be underestimated.

On a side note - why did the malfoy send draco to hogwarts and not one of the international schools? They hated dumbeldore. I know it works with the whole 'voldermort task' but it seems odd to me that Lucius would send him.

@nocutsnobuttsnococonuts

Also Ron couldnt be in hufflepuff, he abandoned Hermione and Harry. Also he treated Lavender badly when they were together. One of hufflepuffs qualities is loyalty which he is seriously lacking in. He copies off Hermione so isn't hard working either.

He doesn't fit there at all! Hufflepuff is the most awesome and underrated house! No room for Ron in here!

Disagree. Didn’t the Sorting Hat cite Helga Hufflepuff of saying in response to the other founders deciding which traits they wanted “I’ll take them all and treat them just the same”. Hufflepuffs were therefore anyone not brave, clever or pure enough to make the other houses. “Hufflepuffs are loyal” is just a platitude repeated ti make them feel better.

Anyway we were also watching today and pissing ourselves at Dumbledore’s behaviour. Not that I thought anything of it as a teen.

Also for whoever jumped to ITV2 for the finale - Voldemort is a remarkably camp and not very scary villain. His giggling at the school gates is bizarre.

Love the bit where the Malfoys walked off. Narcissa is a good parent indeed. She’s had it with Lucius and his shit. She’s been on mumsnet for advice on protecting her son

@Strawbales

Harry was born July 1980 and I was born in the September. I don’t think safeguarding was too hot in 1980s primary schools!

He started at Hogwarts in 1991?????????

Also how tf did Sirius get sent to Azkaban without trial and none of his mates or fam ever bothered to say anything about it or try to talk to him or whatever? Why is wizard prison so harsh that he couldn’t even grass up Scabbers?

I know dumbledore did raise Harry for slaughter, he knew Harry might have to die and ultimately trained him as his solider. He also knew he had snape because of Lily and I've wondered before if dumbeldore allowed that (James and Lily's deaths) to happen 'for the greater good' in some way.

That would be playing a seriously long game.

Yeah, it was the explanation as to why Voldemort couldn’t just walk straight into the Dursley’s house and finish him off and instead had to get at him in other ways

Thus putting more pressure upon Lily's scapegoat sister to have to take him in - 'if you don't, he'll die and it'll all be your fault'.

@SickAndTiredAgain

I know dumbledore did raise Harry for slaughter, he knew Harry might have to die and ultimately trained him as his solider. He also knew he had snape because of Lily and I've wondered before if dumbeldore allowed that (James and Lily's deaths) to happen 'for the greater good' in some way.

That would be playing a seriously long game.

I think he was playing a very long game! He lead the first war and he knew about the prophecy as voldermort did. If James and Lily were sacrificed for Harry, he could gain control of snape and Harry very easily. He probably just didn't know if voldermort would go for Neville.

@Queenoftheashes

Also how tf did Sirius get sent to Azkaban without trial and none of his mates or fam ever bothered to say anything about it or try to talk to him or whatever? Why is wizard prison so harsh that he couldn’t even grass up Scabbers?

His family were dead I think. And hated him anyway. And his friends all believed he was guilty. Which isn’t very loyal but to be fair, he did look pretty guilty. What doesn’t make sense is why James would make Pettigrew the secret keeper at all. Why not make himself the secret keeper (this is possible because in the later books Bill is secret keeper for his and Fleur’s house). Then they could just stay where they are and be literally impossible to find.

@SickAndTiredAgain I have wondered the exact same thing. Or why ever consider taking Sirius off when James and Sirius were closest (Sirius often spend summers with James too) and he was Harry's godfather. That bit didn't make much sense.

@HariboBrenshnio it is mentioned in the books that Lucius wanted him to go to Durmstrang but that Narcissa didn't want him to go so far away.

I've wonder where Harry's grandparents were?

If James and Lily were 20/21 when they died, his grandparents would probably have been in their 50s or 60s when he started Hogwarts. Where were they?

And Harry would also have had the same blood protection loving with his maternal grandparents that he had with Petunia.

Were both James and Lily orphaned young, and I somehow missed/forgot this?

[quote User27569]@HariboBrenshnio it is mentioned in the books that Lucius wanted him to go to Durmstrang but that Narcissa didn't want him to go so far away.[/quote]
Ah yes that does ring a bell. It's been a while since I read them all.

I'm a bit of a Draco fan and I can see the parallels between Draco and Harry's lives. Both being raised for certain things and forced into an adult war at 16 on opposing sides.

@CSJobseeker

I've wonder where Harry's grandparents were?

If James and Lily were 20/21 when they died, his grandparents would probably have been in their 50s or 60s when he started Hogwarts. Where were they?

And Harry would also have had the same blood protection loving with his maternal grandparents that he had with Petunia.

Were both James and Lily orphaned young, and I somehow missed/forgot this?

According to HP wiki, the Evan's died 'normal muggle deaths' before their daughter died and the Potters both died of Dragon Pox before their son died.

The potters were minted because they created the Sleakeazy hair potion, so their fortune went to James and then Harry.

@CSJobseeker

I've wonder where Harry's grandparents were?

If James and Lily were 20/21 when they died, his grandparents would probably have been in their 50s or 60s when he started Hogwarts. Where were they?

And Harry would also have had the same blood protection loving with his maternal grandparents that he had with Petunia.

Were both James and Lily orphaned young, and I somehow missed/forgot this?

James's parents were also classed as elderly when he was born - magic!

I can’t believe that Lupin wouldn’t have at least wanted a word with Sirius after how close they were at school. Pettigrew was clearly the rat of the group. No one ever even wanted to question him?
Narcissa I guess would have known he wasn’t the rat but I guess didn’t care much.

@CSJobseeker

I've wonder where Harry's grandparents were?

If James and Lily were 20/21 when they died, his grandparents would probably have been in their 50s or 60s when he started Hogwarts. Where were they?

And Harry would also have had the same blood protection loving with his maternal grandparents that he had with Petunia.

Were both James and Lily orphaned young, and I somehow missed/forgot this?

On Reddit:

'As a writer, it was more interesting, plot-wise, if Harry was completely alone. So I rather ruthlessly disposed of his entire family apart from Aunt Petunia. I mean, James and Lily are massively important to the plot, of course, but the grandparents? No. And, because I do like my backstory: Petunia and Lily's parents, normal Muggle death. James's parents were elderly, were getting on a little when he was born, which explains the only child, very pampered, had-him-late-in-life-so-he's-an-extra-treasure, as often happens, I think. They were old in wizarding terms, and they died. They succumbed to a wizarding illness. That's as far as it goes. There's nothing serious or sinister about those deaths. I just needed them out of the way so I killed them.'

@Queenoftheashes

Also how tf did Sirius get sent to Azkaban without trial and none of his mates or fam ever bothered to say anything about it or try to talk to him or whatever? Why is wizard prison so harsh that he couldn’t even grass up Scabbers?

It's harsh because it's full of dementors.

@Waahingwashingwashing

If Harry was a horcrux - the one that Voldemort never meant to make - could the Dursley’s have been horrible because they were living with a horcrux? Look at what it did to Ron having the thing around his neck

According to HP wiki, the Evan's died 'normal muggle deaths' before their daughter died and the Potters both died of Dragon Pox before their son died.

Unlucky families! And convenient for the story arc....

you can see why he hates Harry but that doesn't justify the way he abuses his status as his teacher to bully him

Dumbledore had told snape that Voldemort would return and need to be defeated. Snape therefore had to treat Harry (and anyone else not in Slytherin) badly, at least a bit, if he were ever to be able to return as a spy. He’s also clearly a damaged person (bad home life and bullied through secondary school by James et al) and by modern standards we’d likely recognise him as a victim of grooming by a terrorist gang. He agreed to commit murder (of Dumbledore) to prevent a child (Malfoy) from doing it and so tore his own soul to save another’s. He is outraged and furious that Harry has actually been used and manipulated to death by Dumbledore. He’s not a perfect person by any stretch of the imagination, but the whole point is that through the series of books Harry (and by extension the reader) recognises that rather than being a outright bad guy, Snape did terrible things to save the world.

but he did die for the cause in the end.

Not really. Dumbledore was dying from him attempt to seize the power of the ring. What he wanted (and got) from Snape was euthanasia. The right to determine the manner of his own death. He was an appalling person in his youth, and even in old age is willing to risk the sacrifice of a child (Harry) based on his own personal interpretation of deep magic without any guarantee that he was right. And he never bothered to include any adults (other than Snape) in his plans, probably because many of them (Molly, Arthur, Sirius, Lupin) would strongly object to a child being used as a pawn. With his character, Harry starts off seeing him as a hero but begins to recognise flaws. IMO the books don’t really finish this properly because Harry never gets over Dumbledore essentially saving him from the abusive household he grew up in, so never properly recognises that Dumbledore was actually a bad person - he is ultimately dying because he gave in to the desire for power than Marvolo’s ring represents. Aberforth, of course, knew the truth.

In less detailed (but probably equally controversial) statements:

• Voldemort was a victim of mental instability due to inbreeding and a product of a clearly unsuitable orphanage system
• Molly would have been the MIL from hell
• Sirius was a dickhead
• Hermione could have done way better than whiny Ron
• Why the hell does everyone in the wizarding world end up marrying their 6th form partners?!

It really winds me up throughout all of the books that the supposed clever, brave, dynamic protagonists constantly fail to share information with one another that would no doubt help the cause/solve whatever it is that they want to solve. Harry does this all of the time, it's so arrogant. Also, why does Dumbledore keep so many things secret? Why would he share that he is Horcrux hunting with Harry but not with much more learned wizards like McGonagall etc who would have done a much better job of helping him?