The Labour Party are unelectable. Can they turn it around? What would they need to do to gain your trust?

[flashbac]

After another week of corrupt shenanigans from the Tories (last week was allowing literal shit pumping into watercourses, this week attempting to set aside a finding of dodgy dealings) we would still be stuck with them if there was a snap election tomorrow.

The Labour brand has become far too toxic. Keir is next to useless and all of them listen to the wrong people instead of instinctively knowing what to fight for. If they can turn it around and rebuild trust it won't be a quick or easy job. They have lost all credibility.

What do they need to do to rebuild trust or is it too late?

For me they need to start with the following:

• Get a leader with charisma and strong values surrounding fairness. The current one just doesn't cut it.
• know wtf a woman is. Stop trying to erase natal women as a sex class.

What's on your wishlist for a credible alternative to the Tories?

I liked Brown. It was very unfortunate timing for him - Blair stayed in post too long and by the time GB had taken over, the Labour govt were in the twilight of their years which didn't help him. A real shame as we probably could have avoided the worst consequences of austerity had he remained as PM. The dismantling of things like Sure Start centres was a massive mistake. I'd also like to think that given the then-Govt's focus on NHS funding, we might have had a better pandemic as well.

I don’t think there’s anything Labour can do except make a pact with the LibDems, Greens, SNP, Plaid Cymru etc.

I take your point, but all that'll do is shove them even further into the hands of noisy minority groups - some of them single issue ones

They'd all want their pound of flesh, and while regional issues are important that's what local government is for (even though too many of them just try to pass the buck to Westminster)

^ Too true. How did we end up with Greensill Cameron? Just as corrupt as Johnson.

Making any pact with the SNP renders them forever unelectable in Scotland

@GreenWhiteViolet

I'm working class and have voted Tory as the best of a bad bunch. There are plenty of things I dislike about the party and their policies, but they're not po-faced and patronising. In this thread alone we've been told that Tory voters all have blood on their hands, and that anyone who has voted Tory doesn't support 'socialist values' and so isn't wanted in Labour. Okay. I'm not a socialist and I'm not interested in dranatic hyperbole and woke identity politics so I'll keep voting Tory.

You can maintain ideological purity or you can gain mass support. If Labour want the latter, they need to become more centrist and offer up some sensible policies. The Tories have fucked up so much that the cente votes are there for the taking, and yet so many people, me included, think Labour are worse. And if Labour's response is essentially 'yes but you're thick and if you knew better you'd do what we say and vote for us' they won't be changing any minds. Brexit should have taught them that.

Well hyperbole aside Tory voters have blood on their hands from voting in a party who cut disability benefits and funds to such an extreme they made us the first ever country to violate the convention of rights on people with disabilities and caused so many deaths.

Labour voters equally have blood on their hands for Blair sending us into an illegal war.

I think what has to matter is their current manifestos and what they say publicly now.

Until they stand up for women’s rights there’s no way I’d vote for them again.

Also this. Keir has done nothing wrong except not being a showboating conman, which is apparently what the nation wants.

Yes he has done something wrong. He has said it's wrong to say only women have a cervix, which makes him either stupid or a liar. It is perfectly possible to detest showboating conmen like Johnson and also not want to vote for someone who won't admit what a woman is.

You lost me at your title. Labour are not unelectable and I'm fucking sick of the trans-bashing on Mumsnet.

@MilesJuppIsMyBitch

Honestly, the only way I'd now vote Labour (as a life-long supporter) is if they had a female leader who was sympathetic to GC viewpoints. I'm fed up with men being in charge, and bowing to the TRA bullies.

Maybe if Jess Phillips spoke up...

Can't see that happening any time soon.

My personal theory is that Yvette Cooper is keeping her powder dry by distancing herself from the leadership and will stand after Labour lose the next GE (which rumours has it will be Spring 22, because the Tories know they will win - the FTPA is due to be scrapped, I believe?). I would vote for the Labour Party under Cooper and I think she would be better able to appeal to centrists also.

@FangsForTheMemory

You lost me at your title. Labour are not unelectable and I'm fucking sick of the trans-bashing on Mumsnet.

If they aren't unelectable then why aren't they in power?

Drop the identity woo, stop knifing each other in the back, start prioritising the millions of people living in poverty instead of a hundred twenty year old 'folx' with blue hair and male rapists who want to be locked in a prison cell with a nice rapeable woman. Bonus points if you can have her incarcerated for longer when she misgenders you.

@FangsForTheMemory

You lost me at your title. Labour are not unelectable and I'm fucking sick of the trans-bashing on Mumsnet.

Trans bashing would be transphobia presumably and therefore against the rules.

If you see any report it, posts get deleted swiftly.

Or are you referring to women caring about women’s rights? God forbid women voice an opinion on our legal rights protections.

@BloodinGutters it does rather neatly illustrate one of the major issues facing the Labour party though, doesn't it? Anything other than unquestioning support of identity politics is "bashing"...

@HereticFanjo

Drop the identity woo, stop knifing each other in the back, start prioritising the millions of people living in poverty instead of a hundred twenty year old 'folx' with blue hair and male rapists who want to be locked in a prison cell with a nice rapeable woman. Bonus points if you can have her incarcerated for longer when she misgenders you.

Perfectly put @HereticFanjo

@FangsForTheMemory

You lost me at your title. Labour are not unelectable and I'm fucking sick of the trans-bashing on Mumsnet.

Oh grow up, FFS

My personal theory is that Yvette Cooper is keeping her powder dry by distancing herself from the leadership and will stand after Labour lose the next GE

You're not alone in that, Jordain; I've been saying exactly the same

However a bit of cosmetic face-changing isn't going to stop the manic groups who seem to have Labour on speed-dial, so she'd just end up arguing the toss with the very same people
And that's if she even got in with a membership who kept on voting for Corbyn, in whom the PP had lost confidence ... by a margin of 160-odd to 40 if memory serves

[quote BackBackBack]@BloodinGutters it does rather neatly illustrate one of the major issues facing the Labour party though, doesn't it? Anything other than unquestioning support of identity politics is "bashing"...[/quote]
Absolutely.

But electing a party who are too stupid to see that or too cowardly to do anything about it isn’t something that appeals to me either.

Rat face may be all kinds of vile slithery things, but I’m confident he can at least add well enough to see where public opinion is heading. And while I’m sure he’d offer to suck cock if it got him elected I don’t doubt he has enough of a spine to ignore the blue hair brigade while following where voter trends lead him.

I think Keir Starter would be a good PM. Unfortunately the Labour Party are never going to get anywhere until they can find a way to bring the media onside. Most of the major media moguls are chums with the Tories. The BBC is too scared of losing its licence fee status to speak out against the government. People complain that they don't know enough about Labour's policies but they are invisible in the media.

Also, I get that "woke" politics may not be everybody's cup of tea. I roll my eyes at some things myself. But to genuinely believe that's worse than the Tory policies of cutting money to the poorest at a time when living costs are rising, scandal after scandal, appalling COVID policies that have allowed thousands extra to die, running the health and education services into the ground? I think people are focusing on the wrong issues.

@WouldBeGood

Making any pact with the SNP renders them forever unelectable in Scotland

Yep.

@lazylinguist

Also this. Keir has done nothing wrong except not being a showboating conman, which is apparently what the nation wants.

Yes he has done something wrong. He has said it's wrong to say only women have a cervix, which makes him either stupid or a liar. It is perfectly possible to detest showboating conmen like Johnson and also not want to vote for someone who won't admit what a woman is.

I think this was Starmer's 'that bigoted woman' moment....along with Rayner's 'Tory Scum'

Oh dear Fangs, yes, Labour are unelectable, they keep proving it, but carry on with your head stuck firmly in the sand. Do point out the trans bashing.

People complain that they don't know enough about Labour's policies but they are invisible in the media

Why would people need to read the media to understand policies though?
There's little point anyway since objective reporting's like hens' teeth, but if folk can dial up some rag they can also search for a party's own site and get the official version, read Hansard, or whatever else offers the facts instead of some editor's agenda

@bizboz

I think Keir Starter would be a good PM. Unfortunately the Labour Party are never going to get anywhere until they can find a way to bring the media onside. Most of the major media moguls are chums with the Tories. The BBC is too scared of losing its licence fee status to speak out against the government. People complain that they don't know enough about Labour's policies but they are invisible in the media.

Also, I get that "woke" politics may not be everybody's cup of tea. I roll my eyes at some things myself. But to genuinely believe that's worse than the Tory policies of cutting money to the poorest at a time when living costs are rising, scandal after scandal, appalling COVID policies that have allowed thousands extra to die, running the health and education services into the ground? I think people are focusing on the wrong issues.

But this is telling people what they should be concerned about, rather than actually asking them what they are concerned about. You may think people are focusing on the wrong issues - however others might disagree with that, and then we are back round the hamster wheel of "Tory scum, blood on hands" and so on.

I have never and would never vote Tory

Re twaw - tories are just as bad if not worse for this - who's been in charge while all that shit has happened and legal changes HAVE been made? Tories! - they're just more secretive/quiet about it

I've been voting snp last few times though they are certainly problematic too! But my own snp is a good man

For me to vote labour again:

Get a leader who doesn't have splinters in his arse from spending so much time on the fence!

Have a shadow cabinet that isn't so similar to a Tory one in terms of backgrounds - very few grass roots working class people in there!

Be clear about their manifesto and not be ashamed to say they are socialists and want a social democracy which is actually what we need

Start BEING an opposition rather than weakly abstaining on important votes where they CAN and should make a difference

Rediscover their wc roots and beliefs stop pissing about over shit nobody cares about and actually SHOW they plan to and understand we need them to address things like:

High housing costs - we need FAR more social housing and affordable housing for ordinary families NOT for landlords and property developers to effectively be funded by the state! The main issue here imo is that far too many mps (of ALL parties) are landlords and developers and these mps regularly and frequently vote AGAINST measures that would reduce housing costs and give tenants more rights

Prevent those who aren't British citizens from buying properties they'll never live in. yep also a problem

High living costs

Investing in THIS country in terms of job creation and supporting our industries

Low wages (supported by the state via subsidised corporations) and workers rights - the tories have undone so much of these and labour have barely mentioned it!

It should not be allowed that a low wage is propped up by the tax-payer

The punitive farce that is UC administration (sanctions, making people have to jump through insane hoops to get any help etc)

Treatment of the sick/disabled

Treatment and funding of the nhs and social care

Proper funding of education at all levels

Proper funding and organisation of the public transport people actually need!

Stop being so in thrall to the unions

That's a weird comment to make about the Labour Party! And as far as I can tell at the moment far from true. Are you even aware of how the Labour Party was created?

Agree the in fighting has to go!

I have never understood floating voters between these two parties, they are chalk and cheese.

I agree

@Menstrualcycledisplayteam agree on cms that is LONG overdue an overhaul!

For me, the biggest issue is our voting system

Yea tbh until that's changed it's fairly pointless people even voting in Scotland wales and Northern Ireland in a GE as ultimately it makes zero difference!

That said if everyone in those countries voted labour we MIGHT have a chance of ousting the tories

The Tories are the only party that's even vaguely sensible on this stuff. genuinely asking where's your evidence for this?

I think they MASSIVELY missed a trick on brexit, yea a lot of people voted for but almost as many again voted against and there's also the possibility that many who didn't vote either way either didn't care or would have voted against so if labour had clearly come out as a remain party as an alternative to Tory pro Brexit stance they could have "mopped up" a load of votes from remainers and abstainers

They are currently the only party not pushing self ID

You're deluded if you think so

I think a big hurdle to having an electable Labour government is the right wing press - the anti-left narrative is relentless.

Yes! This is a huge issue BUT one that voters COULD choose to redress themselves by not only looking to msm for info

Certain key functions should be under national control, so that they are non-profit making because the rewards are driven back into the function, ensuring it runs efficiently and pays staff properly. Energy, water, the NHS, public transport and education should all come under this remit.

Agree with this

The Labour Party needs to stop trying to make everyone happy and go back and remember who is the base

Exactly

Many don't know what a manual low paid job is never mind having work in one,

REALLY strongly agree with this

You still see people who think Sir KS is a hereditary Sir

Imo no genuine self respecting labour leader who actually understood and respected labour roots would BE a sir in the first place!

Many don't know what a manual low paid job is never mind having work in one

Yes, this is an excellent point. I'd also add that there is a certain patronising air which is evident when they talk about the concept of low-paid manual work.

Get rid of the woke nonsense.
Have a serious policy for wealth creation.
Embrace the aspirations of the mass of ordinary people.