The Labour Party are unelectable. Can they turn it around? What would they need to do to gain your trust?

[flashbac]

After another week of corrupt shenanigans from the Tories (last week was allowing literal shit pumping into watercourses, this week attempting to set aside a finding of dodgy dealings) we would still be stuck with them if there was a snap election tomorrow.

The Labour brand has become far too toxic. Keir is next to useless and all of them listen to the wrong people instead of instinctively knowing what to fight for. If they can turn it around and rebuild trust it won't be a quick or easy job. They have lost all credibility.

What do they need to do to rebuild trust or is it too late?

For me they need to start with the following:

• Get a leader with charisma and strong values surrounding fairness. The current one just doesn't cut it.
• know wtf a woman is. Stop trying to erase natal women as a sex class.

What's on your wishlist for a credible alternative to the Tories?

@PermanentTemporary

I'd vote Labour because of Keir Starmer, he's an intelligent man with a normal amount of integrity, decisive and responsible, looks for solutions rather than parroting soundbites

What I don't understand is why nobody else seems to feel the same.

Here’s why.

@Graphista the only place I think I disagree with you is the pro remain stance. I don't think they would have mopped up votes. They might have but they would have lost lots too. It would have looked like an assault on democracy.

[quote jewel1968]@Graphista the only place I think I disagree with you is the pro remain stance. I don't think they would have mopped up votes. They might have but they would have lost lots too. It would have looked like an assault on democracy.[/quote]
At least 4 million Leave voters were Labour supporters according to estimates including several prominent members of the party and MPs. Does/did Labour really want to say "fuck off you're not welcome" to them?

Labour are not unelectable and I'm fucking sick of the trans-bashing on Mumsnet.

I'm sick of the blatant disregard for women's rights shown my most of our current political parties. Trying to silence women, by accusing them of some form of bigotry, rather than listening to them is incredibly misogynistic.

Having had some more time to think about things to add to my first post -

Social housing, and much more of it.

Properly funded police who are focused on the issues and crimes which are concerning the average person. Worry about the femicide epidemic, instead of chasing after people for wrongthink on social media despite the fact they haven't broken any laws.

Work on improving public transport - by nationalising it, achieve a consistent and fit for purpose network which is a genuinely viable alternative to cars.

Education which is fit for purpose - schools which are responsive instead of being purely academic hothouses. Ensure there is provision for children who are not 'academic' but have other talents. Ensure there is proper SEND provision and support rather than leaving SEND children in mainstream schools if they cannot cope because there is no other alternative.

I'd outlaw overseas property owners. Houses should not be used as a facility for parking wealth. Tackle the private rent issue. Landlords should be licensed and inspected, and rent caps should be in place. If social housing provision is sorted then this would make rent caps easily achievable as it would level out rent prices anyway by removing the current demand and shortage issue.

Outlaw mega dairies and incentivise local farming to promote soil quality and animal welfare. Introduce a maximum journey time/mile limit for livestock being sent to abattoirs and ensure these are regularly inspected and that the highest standards of humane slaughter are met.

Tackle anti-social behaviour and littering. Reintroducing early years intervention (such as Sure Start Centres, although I see the Tories have finally picked up on that one again), quality education and appropriate penalties for ASB.

They need to stop with the harmful gender woo narrative, it's shite and dangerous to women and children.

I can't believe I'm saying this (as a member of the Labour Party) but if they've not packed it in by the next election, I'll be voting Tory for the first time in my life

@Beamur

Stop the petty infighting. Move on from insisting everyone has to think/believe the same - figure out how to be a broad church with common goals. Stop living in the past whilst simultaneously thinking you're the only progressive party.

This. I don't know why the trans thing has to be so divisive. Surely they could just say we'll work to cut down the ridiculous wait times for gender identity clinics, we'll start having trans short lists/focus groups and we absolutely believe people should be able to express their gender identity how they see fit. However we also understand there are occasions where biology is important and we will continue to protect those spaces segregated by sex.

Why is it so hard to say that most of the time biology is not important (choosing your job, music preferences, hobbies etc), but there are some occasions where it clearly does matter (sports, changing rooms, prisons) and it would be letting women down to ignore those occasions.

Women have fought so long and hard to have our voices heard, and our rights validated. We should not be silenced.

At least 4 million Leave voters were Labour supporters according to estimates including several prominent members of the party and MPs. Does/did Labour really want to say "fuck off you're not welcome" to them?

I live in a red wall area also overwhelmingly voted 'leave'. Round here the majority of people who would normally vote Labour but didn't, changed their vote specifically because they were fed up of the Labour party telling them that being concerned about the impact of immigration in the community meant that they were an uneducated racist.

@MrsColon

They need to stop with the harmful gender woo narrative, it's shite and dangerous to women and children.

I can't believe I'm saying this (as a member of the Labour Party) but if they've not packed it in by the next election, I'll be voting Tory for the first time in my life

Likewise.

@BackBackBack

At least 4 million Leave voters were Labour supporters according to estimates including several prominent members of the party and MPs. Does/did Labour really want to say "fuck off you're not welcome" to them?

I live in a red wall area also overwhelmingly voted 'leave'. Round here the majority of people who would normally vote Labour but didn't, changed their vote specifically because they were fed up of the Labour party telling them that being concerned about the impact of immigration in the community meant that they were an uneducated racist.

Actually that's a good point - Labour (likes of Emily Thornberry) actually did say fuck off to people who had voted for them.

However we also understand there are occasions where biology is important and we will continue to protect those spaces segregated by sex.

Well I think most reasonable people would agree with you but unfortunately as well meaning as your statement is it's also transphobic in the current climate. Guess who is being unreasonable? Hint, it's not women.

I left the Labour Party when their leader denied women are women

I will have to spoil my ballot. If enough do it I hope it will make a headline somewhere

I will absolutely vote Conservative over Labour purely on the basis that Labour can’t begin to advocate for me on any level if they can’t define a woman as an adult human female.
If you can’t define or defend half the population then how on earth can you run the country? Seriously, how?

Don’t give rights away that aren’t yours Keir Starmer, and if you base your party politics around ‘luxury beliefs’ then don’t be surprised when you’re out of touch with most of the country.
Luxury beliefs = indulging in ideologies that will never affect you. KS will never be a woman locked in prison with a man, nor will he self exclude from a rape crisis centre because they think men should be allowed in trauma sessions, nor will he be unable to use a mixed sex changing room or loo because he has strong religious beliefs, nor will he find himself physically endangered on a sports playing field because it’s now ‘single gender/ mixed sex’, nor will he be a neurodiverse child called bigoted for correctly sexing an adult or child, nor will he have his sexual boundaries eroded at a young age by untrained adults around him talking about ‘sexual identities’, nor will he be taught that his personal boundaries are meaningless like an adolescent girl who is told that her feelings must always be subservient to those of the opposite sex who would like to be in her space.

I could go on and on. Luxury beliefs trample all over women - and also all over the very people in society who are most likely to need advocating for and supporting. A decent society looks after their vulnerable, their children, their religious minorities, their women.

Why is it so hard to say that most of the time biology is not important (choosing your job, music preferences, hobbies etc), but there are some occasions where it clearly does matter (sports, changing rooms, prisons) and it would be letting women down to ignore those occasions

You're bringing common sense into it now, ohfook - never a safe thing to do with these matters

@BackBackBack

Having had some more time to think about things to add to my first post -

Social housing, and much more of it.

Properly funded police who are focused on the issues and crimes which are concerning the average person. Worry about the femicide epidemic, instead of chasing after people for wrongthink on social media despite the fact they haven't broken any laws.

Work on improving public transport - by nationalising it, achieve a consistent and fit for purpose network which is a genuinely viable alternative to cars.

Education which is fit for purpose - schools which are responsive instead of being purely academic hothouses. Ensure there is provision for children who are not 'academic' but have other talents. Ensure there is proper SEND provision and support rather than leaving SEND children in mainstream schools if they cannot cope because there is no other alternative.

I'd outlaw overseas property owners. Houses should not be used as a facility for parking wealth. Tackle the private rent issue. Landlords should be licensed and inspected, and rent caps should be in place. If social housing provision is sorted then this would make rent caps easily achievable as it would level out rent prices anyway by removing the current demand and shortage issue.

Outlaw mega dairies and incentivise local farming to promote soil quality and animal welfare. Introduce a maximum journey time/mile limit for livestock being sent to abattoirs and ensure these are regularly inspected and that the highest standards of humane slaughter are met.

Tackle anti-social behaviour and littering. Reintroducing early years intervention (such as Sure Start Centres, although I see the Tories have finally picked up on that one again), quality education and appropriate penalties for ASB.

This. And everything in your previous post.

Many don't know what a manual low paid job is never mind having work in one

But this is even more the case with the Conservative party!

@bizboz

Many don't know what a manual low paid job is never mind having work in one

But this is even more the case with the Conservative party!

True. But to another poster's earlier point (sorry cannot remember who and I really should because I have quoted them a few times!) the Tories don't pretend to be the party of manual labour.

Nope I still don't get it. You don't like Corbyn? Fine, I didn't. You don't like Starmer? Your choice. You didn't like Blair, because he wasn't Labour enough and Iraq. I understand. I loathed Thatcher with every fibre of my being but I would swap her in a heartbeat for this excuse of a PM. He's a liar, a cheat, he's lazy, corrupt, racist, homophobic and he wound sell his grandmother for a free lunch. The rules don't apply to him. And he got Brexit done sure, whatever you think of that. But at what cost? He's sold the GFA down the river and he would do the same to anyone or anything in his way. And I will never understand how anyone could vote for him. And I judge anyone would could. Because he is not a force for good in this country. And he is doing us real harm.

Get a smart (Starmer) leader from working class background (Corbin) with strong labour principles and integrity who can show the country what a duplicitous, hypocritical, lying - that can placate both sides of the party. To my mind that is the dream team of Angela Rayner and Andy Burnham .

Solid People.

Stop having policies about taxing people more who earn over 70k. This will frighten off so many voters who already pay so much tax.
Recognise women as a separate sex class and abide by the law in that respect. So worrying for safeguarding of women and children especially in vulnerable positions like schools, prisons and care homes.
Everyone is fed up of the annoying, know it all, 6th former, wokery, tedious bollocks.
All the support for hamas and anti Semitism is totally unacceptable

Labour are being punished by the voters for operating on political calculation rather than political principle. They were a pro-EU party who voted for a referendum, then supported a re-run after promising to respect the original result.

They promised to stamp out anti-Semitism among their own members and then promoted the woman who led an investigation that was a whitewash.

They are supposed to stand up for the disadvantaged, but are only really interested in "standing with" identity groups who claim to be disadvantaged on Twitter.

It is unclear what they represent any more, except for some vaguely liberal social beliefs - which doesn't help them against a Tory party which is no longer socially conservative. Blair relaunched the Labour party ("New Labour") and redefined its purpose. Something similar needs to happen today.

Time for a new party or a split in the current Labour party,
2 separate parties with separate leaders and different manifestos, the "twaw" crowd going one way and everyone else the other way.
I'm tired of labour whining about what the conservatives are doing wrong -we already know about that. We need to know what labour could do themselves. Where are all the strong women in the labour party? Could be time for a woman as PM.

Know what a woman is and have a sensible approach to balancing competing rights JUST AS WE DO WITH EVERY OTHER DISADVANTAGED GROUP. I don't mind Keir, but accept that the rest of the electorate don't seem to feel this way.

The party would do better to close the many loopholes that exist around corporation tax and ensure this is applied fairly.

Close the loop holes of intra-group lending and services and accounting practices of being able to carry forward losses if it is demonstrable that you are a multi-national and the rest of your group is in vast profit. Amazon's European sales topped £44bn in 2020 but they paid zero corporation tax. Zero. Even someone on NMW pays more tax than Amazon - no wonder that Jeff Bezos has a personal net worth of over $200bn which is quite frankly immoral and totally indefensible. No single human being needs a billion dollars let alone 200 of them.

Amazon and Facebook and Starbucks will not pack up and leave - they'll threaten, but they won't. There are too many consumers here to ignore and the negative PR associated with refusing to pay a fair tax would be awful.