The Labour Party are unelectable. Can they turn it around? What would they need to do to gain your trust?

[flashbac]

After another week of corrupt shenanigans from the Tories (last week was allowing literal shit pumping into watercourses, this week attempting to set aside a finding of dodgy dealings) we would still be stuck with them if there was a snap election tomorrow.

The Labour brand has become far too toxic. Keir is next to useless and all of them listen to the wrong people instead of instinctively knowing what to fight for. If they can turn it around and rebuild trust it won't be a quick or easy job. They have lost all credibility.

What do they need to do to rebuild trust or is it too late?

For me they need to start with the following:

• Get a leader with charisma and strong values surrounding fairness. The current one just doesn't cut it.
• know wtf a woman is. Stop trying to erase natal women as a sex class.

What's on your wishlist for a credible alternative to the Tories?

Another one here who thinks that only a new party could help things now; between the unions, deranged minority interest groups and business cronies, both Labour and Conservative have sold out completely and the smaller ones are an irrelevance

Trouble is it costs money to run a major party, so it's a question of who'd fund it ... especially when most with integrity avoid politics like the plague now, and the few with it tend to get corrupted once they're "inside"

They need to get to get rid of the liability that is Angela Rayner. They will never win an egg and spoon race with people like her in shadow cabinet. Then maybe they could learn what a woman is. Much more to do, but those two would be a good start.

The PP who said that Labour don’t want to govern made a good point. Labour always seem to have the view that the unfortunate business of actually ruling will sully their political ideology. Far better to criticise from the sidelines and keep their ideology pure.

I also agree that they encompass too many left-wing aspects which then fight like cats in a bag. You’ve got hard-left and centre-left, die-hard unionists, Momentum, Blairites and moderates all trying to make “their” vision of the Labour Party which is now more of a concept than a reality. I would bloody love to see a decent centre-left party come out to replace the Lib Dems, who I don’t think are ever going to be forgiven for hopping into bed with Cameron and Osborne. What we need is a new SDP-style break-away party.

Anyone who votes Tory has blood on their hands.

I don’t think this kind of intolerance or perpetuation of division ever helps anything.

Learn what a women actually is. Then stand up for our rights instead of trying erase them

I will spoil my vote rather than vote Labour. The whole TWAW thing is not the be-all-and-end all for me, but it does make them look like gullible fools. If they can believe that, then what other madness will they put forward?

I'm in one of those areas where a lampost could be elected if it wore a red ribbon.

It doesn't matter where I am, a vote for any other party is effectively a futile protest vote.

The last election, there were only three candidates (Lab, Con and LibDem) as there was simply no point fielding candidates from a protest, fringe or extremist party.

Even UKIP and the Brexit Party didn't bother.

A new political party would have to be beyond exceptional to even get a look in.

Labour always seem to have the view that the unfortunate business of actually ruling will sully their political ideology. Far better to criticise from the sidelines and keep their ideology pure.

Absolutely this, 100%. Far too concerned with slinging hysterical accusations about and obsessing about identity politics. Instead of being pragmatic and talking to their base to find out what they want - which is jobs and an economy that works fairly for people.

Anyone who votes Tory has blood on their hands.

In a nutshell, this sums up why people don't argue back and just vote at the ballot box - and people like you remain surprised that Labour aren't in government, and I say that as a card carrying Labour party member. The Tories are not a single issue party and dismissing them as 'evil' and getting caught up in the whole 'never kissed a Tory' type nonsense is extremely short-sighted and counter-productive. Why aren't you asking why people are voting for them?

If Labour wants to win again it must bin its current obsession with toxic, divisive identity politics and start actually listening to the ordinary working people outside the M25 whose economic interests it is supposed to exist to represent.

Lecturing and patronising white working class voters who feel ignored and abandoned about Trans rights or BLM or fucking pronouns is not the route to success. Nor is sneering at their patriotism and desire for law & order in their communities, or telling them that their concerns about uncontrolled mass immigration are racist.

Didn't Keir Starmer say that it's 'not right' to say that 'only women have a cervix'? And that he parrots the 'transwomen are women' mantra?

It's the worst form of misogyny ever to reduce a woman to mean both women or men in dresses. Or rather, 'WOMAN' = chest feeders, cervix havers, and males.

It makes me sick and in the next GE, after voting Labour 30 years, I will be spoiling my ballot.

@MidCenturyClegs

Didn't Keir Starmer say that it's 'not right' to say that 'only women have a cervix'? And that he parrots the 'transwomen are women' mantra?

It's the worst form of misogyny ever to reduce a woman to mean both women or men in dresses. Or rather, 'WOMAN' = chest feeders, cervix havers, and males.

It makes me sick and in the next GE, after voting Labour 30 years, I will be spoiling my ballot.

Yes, he did say all that.

It made him sound really fucking stupid and rather unpleasant.

I cannot understand this argument when we see what the current government is doing. Labour has a Leader with gravitas and integrity and the Party has plenty of talent. Those people complaining about Starmer seem to want this corrupt gang to go on and on, because not so long ago they were complaining about Corbyn.

I think the tide is turning. People are fed up now with Boris and the whole incompetent sleazy lot of them.

Labour needs to elect a woman and do away with all the tra crap.

I actually like Keir Starmer and would vote Labour but I do think Yvette Cooper would be an excellent leader and PM

@Libertaire

If Labour wants to win again it must bin its current obsession with toxic, divisive identity politics and start actually listening to the ordinary working people outside the M25 whose economic interests it is supposed to exist to represent.

Lecturing and patronising white working class voters who feel ignored and abandoned about Trans rights or BLM or fucking pronouns is not the route to success. Nor is sneering at their patriotism and desire for law & order in their communities, or telling them that their concerns about uncontrolled mass immigration are racist.

@luckylavender I think Libertaire sums up really neatly why people are still voting Tory.

Based on my experiences at my local WMC and hearing people talking - they think identity politics are an hilarious wind-up and that being told that women have penises is complete nonsense. They think that racism is unacceptable but don't see why they should apologise for flying a union jack flag or being concerned about immigration. They think that it's patronising and irritating to be viewed as 'lesser' and 'ignorant' if you did not going to university and are doing a manual minimum wage job. They think that climate change is real but being lectured by the great and the good about recycling and getting rid of their combi boilers, when said great and good are flying in private jets and taking long-haul holidays, is bloody annoying.

A significant number of people in said WMC voted Tory in the last election and will probably do so again, because the Labour party seems to view these people as 'idiots who need to educate themselves' rather than the backbone of the country.

@Poetrypatty

I actually like Keir Starmer and would vote Labour but I do think Yvette Cooper would be an excellent leader and PM

Agreed.

For me it would be shut the Angela Raynor Tories are scum rhetoric that has no place in the grown up world. Likewise Jess Phillips flat out lying about what her constituents have and have not contacted her about. Don't elect terrorist sympathisers, root out misogyny, anti British and anti semitic behaviour or at last try! Stop pretending Tories have a monopoly on sleeze (Vaz, Webber etc) stop electing people who aren't up for the job jyst because they tick a minoruty/oppression box. Get some proper policies act like a party that can cope with the World Stage not just a drunk Glastonbury. Labour are just embarassing not one of my working class friends supports them not one. Only my middle class NHS /teacher or out of touch to the point of idiocy rich friends vote Labour and I'm fairly sure a lot of them secretly vote Tory.

Stop with the infighting.
Stop with the TWAW shit.

Those people complaining about Starmer seem to want this corrupt gang to go on and on, because not so long ago they were complaining about Corbyn.

Yup.

They think that it's patronising and irritating to be viewed as 'lesser' and 'ignorant' if you did not going to university and are doing a manual minimum wage job. They think that climate change is real but being lectured by the great and the good about recycling and getting rid of their combi boilers, when said great and good are flying in private jets and taking long-haul holidays, is bloody annoying.
A significant number of people in said WMC voted Tory in the last election and will probably do so again.

I do not understand how the logical conclusion of these views is to vote Tory. Do people think that Boris and co don’t look down on people in manual minimum wage jobs? People just cannot seriously think this. And did Boris not just get a private jet back from COP26 after giving a speech about how we must act now?

@Libertaire @BackBackBack - I think there are plenty of people who care about those issues actually. And that the way you dismiss them is not at all forward thinking. It's possible to care about a lot of different issues.

I have never and never will vote tory .
I like Starmer and loathed Corbyn , i think labour are still tainted by him .
I feel desperate with it all at the moment, no one inspires me .
And i am beyond words at the hypocrisy shown by all in Glasgow this week .
I feel as a woman that i have a duty to vote but i think next time i will spoil my vote as a protest,all those supposedly intelligent , educated people in leading roles and yet the majority of us have no idea what they are saying.

@SickAndTiredAgain

They think that it's patronising and irritating to be viewed as 'lesser' and 'ignorant' if you did not going to university and are doing a manual minimum wage job. They think that climate change is real but being lectured by the great and the good about recycling and getting rid of their combi boilers, when said great and good are flying in private jets and taking long-haul holidays, is bloody annoying. A significant number of people in said WMC voted Tory in the last election and will probably do so again.

I do not understand how the logical conclusion of these views is to vote Tory. Do people think that Boris and co don’t look down on people in manual minimum wage jobs? People just cannot seriously think this. And did Boris not just get a private jet back from COP26 after giving a speech about how we must act now?

No, but the Tories generally at the moment are not chastising people as racist for being concerned about immigration. The Tories are - generally speaking - not getting hung up about identity politics. Plus the Tories were on-board with Brexit and I live in a a part of the red wall which was very in favour of leaving.

It is flat-out impossible for me to vote Labour ever again unless they reverse their total sellout on women's rights and acknowledge the material reality and social relevance of sex categories.

In addition, even if they do manage that (which, god knows, should be an obvious and simple thing to do but clearly isn't), I don't see the point of them unless they are prepared to enter electoral alliances with other parties. With the alliances being founded on a shared commitment to extensive electoral and constitutional reform -- to tackle the degenerate state of politics and government that the Tories (and social media) have brought us to.

As things stand, I would abstain in a general election, which I have never done before in four decades of having the right to vote.

[quote luckylavender]**@Libertaire* @BackBackBack* - I think there are plenty of people who care about those issues actually. And that the way you dismiss them is not at all forward thinking. It's possible to care about a lot of different issues. [/quote]
I'm not dismissing people who care about those issues. The problem is that the Labour party is dismissing the millions of voters that don't agree.

I'm perfectly aware that it's possible to care about a lot of issues. But I'm answering your point about why we are having this argument when people see what the current Govt is doing. People feel strongly about the things I have mentioned - and that's proven by the results of the election and Brexit. Shouting people down as scum/having blood on their hands etc., because the voted for a specific party, doesn't stop them from voting for that party again - it just means that they won't tell you how they voted.

Those people complaining about Starmer seem to want this corrupt gang to go on and on, because not so long ago they were complaining about Corbyn.

Corbyn couldn't keep a Shadow Cabinet going for more than a few months.

People kept resigning en masse all through 2016 and there were further issues before and after the General Elections.

This pettiness, this lack of unity and this in-fighting reduces people's confidence in a party's ability to lead.