The Labour Party are unelectable. Can they turn it around? What would they need to do to gain your trust?

[flashbac]

After another week of corrupt shenanigans from the Tories (last week was allowing literal shit pumping into watercourses, this week attempting to set aside a finding of dodgy dealings) we would still be stuck with them if there was a snap election tomorrow.

The Labour brand has become far too toxic. Keir is next to useless and all of them listen to the wrong people instead of instinctively knowing what to fight for. If they can turn it around and rebuild trust it won't be a quick or easy job. They have lost all credibility.

What do they need to do to rebuild trust or is it too late?

For me they need to start with the following:

• Get a leader with charisma and strong values surrounding fairness. The current one just doesn't cut it.
• know wtf a woman is. Stop trying to erase natal women as a sex class.

What's on your wishlist for a credible alternative to the Tories?

I genuinely don't mean this in a goady way, it's an honest question. If you really don't think that Labour is unelectable, what do you think is stopping them from leading in the polls right now? Especially given the number of cock-ups this government has made

I think people generally take a lot longer to change their views than people think. It will take a while for trust to build up. Also the media image of 'Boris' still has a lot of fans, although that might start to change a bit given recent events.

@Puzzledandpissedoff

I don’t think the U.K. is particularly socialist though

To remind myself, I just checked out governments since 1900. Leaving out minorities and coalitions, Labour's been in power for just 21 of those years, so on that basis you seem to be right (though of course circumstances have changed a lot in that time)

And Blair (later Brown) represented a whopping 13 of those ... which is perhaps why it's said they need someone like him again

I think this is a very good point. I remember once being told that the UK as a whole does not like extremes of either persuasion. A party which is either centre right or centre left will be the preference of most voters.

I think that's why Labour did so well in 1997 - the Tories were played out and Blair/Brown presented a very compelling and fresh centre-left vision that was hugely appealing to the electorate. Once in government, voters found that actually a centre left government did a pretty decent job (mostly) and were happy to vote them back in. Had the 2008 financial crash not happened, I think Brown might have carried on for his full term and possibly another one after that.

Radical change has to happen

Churchoflatter what form will this radical change take?
Are you hoping for a full scale revolution?

Very much agree with all that, Back, though god knows we're stuck with one of those extremes right now

We can't know whether the electorate will ever move to a position of trusting Labour again, but my own view FWIW is that it's broken beyond repair and that only a split/new party will resolve things

How long that would take and how it would be funded is anyone's guess, but in the meantime those of us with no partisanship at all and who just vote for whoever seems least awful are left a bit high and dry

I forget who it was who posted earlier, but agree with them that it needs a cohesive joined up senior leadership, with the guts to drag the party into a unified state and put down the anti-semitism, the middle-class champagne socialism and and the identity politics that's currently eating the party alive, fronted by someone compelling with the oomph that's currently lacking.

I don't get the hate for Angela raynor?

I don't dislike Angela but her 'scum' comment at the conference is a superb illustration of the ideological purity that is preventing Labour from being a credible party that ordinary people want to vote for.

In real life we have to rub along with people that we don't always agree with. And quite commonly, we get along perfectly well with people in our lives who have differing political views - they are our colleagues, our friends, our neighbours, our families, our children. Which is why the 'Tories are evil' rhetoric is so unhelpful, because real life outside of the Westminster bubble is far more nuanced and complex and multi-dimensional.

It just comes across as sneering judgement and reinforces to people that politicians are out of touch and think that ordinary people who don't agree with them are horrible, thick idiots.

To the person who called me a die hard labour supporter, I'm really not, I sometimes vote lib dem, sometimes labour depending on where I've lived and who stands the best chance, what I don't vote is Tory. I have in depth knowledge of their workings and I am not saying how, but basically I don't approve of slick but ultimately nasty twats with zero idea of the real world ,convincing people who aren't that politically literate that they have their best interests at heart , they don't. They are Del Boy with A levels.They are however very astute. Play on peoples prejudices, fill your cabinet with social climbing sycophants desparate to get on and play the what a nice fun chap I am folks card . I personally don't care if the prime minister has zero outgoing personality if he is capable ,sensible and has international diplomacy skills.i see nothing wrong with keir stamer at all,though think he could maybe do with a bit more showmanship to appeal to those who need a bit more,obvious, however my personal opinion would be to ditch Angela Rayner as she doesn't think before she speaks. People like Ben Bradshaw and Hillary Benn and Yvette cooper are very able

Oh and always remembering we have a fair old smattering of Anabelles and Jasmines on here whose biggest worries are whether private school is better than private school Y and whether to divorce Rupert before or after his bonus and can they keep the second home .quite sure they look up to and admire Boris and Carrie , in fact probably know them!! Fairly sure for them its business as usual!!

@Crikeyalmighty

Oh and always remembering we have a fair old smattering of Anabelles and Jasmines on here whose biggest worries are whether private school is better than private school Y and whether to divorce Rupert before or after his bonus and can they keep the second home .quite sure they look up to and admire Boris and Carrie , in fact probably know them!! Fairly sure for them its business as usual!!

How do you feel that sneering at people helps things? There are people like that, but just because their lives/values/priorities are different from yours, or mine, or anyone else’s, doesn’t make it OK to be so openly hostile or denigrating.

As a PP said, attitudes like this are why the Left will be in the political wilderness for the foreseeable future.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-59153761

skwawkbox.org/2021/11/06/labour-and-starmer-evans-face-17-5-million-fines-for-data-breach/

My personal view is that the damage done to the party by Corbyns supporters will take a very long time to fix.

It might be a moot point if they are bankrupt.

Good description of the Conservatives, @Crikeyalmighty.

I don't really see Hillary Benn, the fourth generation MP, as the answer. All that Benn Act nonsense helped the Tories win the last election. I don't really have a lot of faith in the "listening to the people" credentials of someone who wants to flat out ignore a referendum result, regardless of whether I agreed with it.

This Andy Burnham seems ok, but that might be because I've hardly heard him speak.

To me the Labour party name is so tarnished now (from Blair Govt onwards), some of the more able MPs (and maybe any Tories with a conscience?) would do well to form a completely new party. I might vote.

The fact there is a 13 page thread about Labour (yes I’m aware I’m adding to it) but nowhere near the same length of thread denouncing the actual government’s corruption says a lot.

Labour are finally calling it for what it is (corruption) which is not ‘sleaze’ or any other minimising terminology some English people use to attempt to show that English corruption isn’t as nasty as foreign corruption.

The fact the OP lists ‘charisma’ as being a necessity is part of the reason why friends of ‘charasmatic’ Boris were handed £500m of tax payers money last year for Covid testing kits, many of which didn’t work, without any competition for the contract. They feel they can get away with anything as ‘the people’ love good old Boris so are happy for kids not to have free school meals or have universal credit reduced in order to free up money to give to his friends.

I’ve complained about Kiers inaction previously but he’s now saying what needs to be said. It’s not his fault that the majority of the main stream media ignore him or amplify when he does have issues.

No previous government would have gotten away with what the current one is and what’s worse, the majority of the English voters are ok with it. Predictions are that real wages will only increase by 2% from 2008 -2024 whereas costs have gone up by much more. We’re being robbed blind and people seem more concerned about whether their prime minister would be a laugh or not.

I love how the Tories are full of lying, corrupt, Eton & Bullingdon Club scumbags yet it's the Labour brand that is "toxic". What a fucked up country.

As a PP said, attitudes like this are why the Left will be in the political wilderness for the foreseeable future.

Gimme a break. The Annabels and Ruperts always fall in line and vote Tory.

@TrishM80

I love how the Tories are full of lying, corrupt, Eton & Bullingdon Club scumbags yet it's the Labour brand that is "toxic". What a fucked up country.

The Tories are dismantling democracy piece by piece, day by day but the majority of Mumsnet will find a reason to chastise Labour before ever criticising the Conservatives.

@Ilovegreentomatoes

I don't get the hate for Angela raynor?

people pretend it's because of the 'scum' thing but they really hate her because she was a teenage mum. A huge chunk of the electorate are in thrall to people they see as being their 'betters' i.e the public school brigade. There's no way Johnson, Mogg et al would be where they are without their plummy accents and a depressing number of people think if you're posh you must know best so they doff their caps and vote them in.

I actually think the Labour party is too tainted now and needs to be completely reborn 'New Labour' style. Although ironically it is my opinion that Brown's 'bigot' comment was the beginning of the end for Labour as we know it.

This is an example of the embarrassing shit I've seen so much of. The Tories are dismantling democracy as we know it and useful idiots like this person focus on how Labour is the tainted party.

No wonder England is in such a mess.

I'd rather gouge out my own eyeballs than vote for the tories!

I honestly believe Labour needs to decide if it's hard left or centre left and elect a strong charismatic leader who will stand up to the Tories and not waiver on the parties goals.

They need to take a look at the issues which are affecting people and plan what they would do, if in power to help, then make sure everyone know their policy plans.

I think the key is to persuade people, they're in charge and know exactly what they're doing. Then people will trust them.

I realise they're hindered by a Tory press and a BBC that now has a Tory in charge of it. They'll need to become social media savvy to counteract this.

I would also never vote Tory.. even less for this current shower.

I will not vote for a Labour party that:

• would bring in self-ID (ie anyone who says they are a woman is treated as one), thus eliminating women's ability to access single-sex spaces
• would put male-bodied rapists and child abusers in women's prisons if those male-bodied people claimed to be women (Lisa Nandy)
• is unable to grasp that only women have cervixes (David Lammy)
• claim that the statement 'only women have cervixes' is something that should not be said (Keir Starmer)
• will not defend MPs like Rosie Duffield who believe in biological truth
• signs pledges denouncing groups such as Women's Place UK and LGB Alliance as 'hate groups' (Nandy, Long-Bailey)

I despise this current government. But while the Labour party deny biological reality and sell women down the river to appease a small minority of activists, I will not vote Labour.

@HeddaGarbled

Get a leader with charisma

I prefer politicians with morality and intelligence to charisma but I’m clearly in the minority.

Well there doesn't seem to be much in the way of intelligence in the shadow cabinet either. As soon as they're asked about anything off-script, they flap around like fish out of water.

@StrychnineInTheSandwiches

I actually think the Labour party is too tainted now and needs to be completely reborn 'New Labour' style. Although ironically it is my opinion that Brown's 'bigot' comment was the beginning of the end for Labour as we know it.

This is an example of the embarrassing shit I've seen so much of. The Tories are dismantling democracy as we know it and useful idiots like this person focus on how Labour is the tainted party.

No wonder England is in such a mess.

No it's because we expect better of the Labour Party and we need them to be the opposition to Conservatives. They are failing to be an effective opposition which is WHY the cons are being able to do whatever they like with impunity.

I could sit here and criticise the Torys until the cows come home but it wouldn't change anything because they are sitting comfortably in power.

Discussing how the Labour Party or anyone else could make themselves a party people would actually put their trust in and vote for could actually be constructive.

But feel free to continue slinging insults around at people and telling them how they feel is wrong rather than focusing on what people are actually telling you is wrong. Pretty sure it's that strategy that's causing Labour to lose over and over again, but crack on.