The Labour Party are unelectable. Can they turn it around? What would they need to do to gain your trust?

[flashbac]

After another week of corrupt shenanigans from the Tories (last week was allowing literal shit pumping into watercourses, this week attempting to set aside a finding of dodgy dealings) we would still be stuck with them if there was a snap election tomorrow.

The Labour brand has become far too toxic. Keir is next to useless and all of them listen to the wrong people instead of instinctively knowing what to fight for. If they can turn it around and rebuild trust it won't be a quick or easy job. They have lost all credibility.

What do they need to do to rebuild trust or is it too late?

For me they need to start with the following:

• Get a leader with charisma and strong values surrounding fairness. The current one just doesn't cut it.
• know wtf a woman is. Stop trying to erase natal women as a sex class.

What's on your wishlist for a credible alternative to the Tories?

Disregarding the fact that Labour have in fact had two female leaders, even if you discount them we are talking about a sample size of six leaders since Thatcher came to power which is not massively statistically significant. I'm not claiming the unions don't have a problem with misogyny but there are a number of women at or near the top of the unions now too.

Can't help but wonder if we have a load of Tory social media bots out there again matching onto or sometimes starting these type threads, they may be arseholes but they are a party that are always campaigning , never governing. I flit between voting labour or lib dem depending where I have lived. In my opinion labour need to stop pandering to xenophobic little englanders in former labour seats, we effectively have UKIP in power and that suits a lot of those people. Start by creating a voting alliance with lib dems, go after Places with low Tory majorities in old school Tory areas, especially on edge of cities and in southern half of the country.make t clear why there are issues, don't pander to closed minded people,don't obsess with woke subjects, I'm totally fed up of this group grabbing agendas--, talk about housing mental health, social care,apprenticeships,funding for skills, changing the school system to allow for a more practical trade orientated route at 14. And personally I wouldnt shy away from the issues around Brexit.my father in law voted for it, hes horrified, as he fully still expected single market and customs union, he actually encouraged us to leave over a year ago,thinks Britain is a busted flush and that a 2 party system totally sucks .

By fed up of this group dictating agendas, i mean theTrans obsessives, not mumsnet ,

In my opinion labour need to stop pandering to xenophobic little englanders in former labour seats, we effectively have UKIP in power and that suits a lot of those people.

This sentence sums up why Labour will be in the wilderness for years. I doubt there are Tory bots posting on this thread, just lots of people frustrated with the Labour party right now.

@Crikeyalmighty I sincerely hope that someone in party HQ is reading this thread and taking note. They have unvarnished and honest feedback here from people who want the Labour party to be able to govern.

Whether the party takes any notice - who knows (probably not, we'll be dismissed as hate-mongering bigots no doubt. God forbid any of these people walk onto an ordinary shop or factory floor and canvass opinion).

What do you mean by "Xenophobic little Englanders", @Crikeyalmighty?
What evidence have you to label them as such?

I'm not claiming the unions don't have a problem with misogyny but there are a number of women at or near the top of the unions now too

Very true, Keflavik, and that's why I said "some" of the union bosses

Unfortunately, as with the party leaders themselves, a little window dressing and a new face doesn't necessarily stop the rot within

@Crikeyalmighty
Can't help but wonder if we have a load of Tory social media bots out there again matching onto or sometimes starting these type threads

MN does have an advanced search feature, if you want to put in some usernames and have a look at posting histories. However, it may confuse you that the people that post regularly here are some of the same ones in this thread and won’t perhaps fit your idea that everyone posting is a “Tory bot”.

It’s also funny how they’ve been in power for so long though. Unless you’re suggesting that the people actually voting them in each time are walking, talking and voting bots too?

Perhaps it would do you - and the other diehard Labour voters - to do less mental gymnastics and coming to the conclusion that everyone posting is fake and to take it on board that everyone posting is real and these are real issues that Labour needs to get a grip on if it ever wants to be elected again. I’m sure it’s easier to dismiss people being bots though. Maybe you like the sidelines?

MN does have an advanced search feature, if you want to put in some usernames and have a look at posting histories. However, it may confuse you that the people that post regularly here are some of the same ones in this thread and won’t perhaps fit your idea that everyone posting is a “Tory bot”.

Some on here would have more compassion and intelligence if they were a bot tbh

Some on here would have more compassion and intelligence if they were a bot tbh

It's that kind of shit from the left which is turning people off. Perhaps you are the Tory bot?

Can't help but wonder if we have a load of Tory social media bots out there again matching onto or sometimes starting these type threads

I thought that too. It does happen on MN. The thread title is quite Tory, as nobody I know irl thinks Labour unelectable now they've got rid of Corbyn.

Having said that, important points have been raised about womens rights and people might not voice that irl because it's controversial to ever speak about now outside of nearest and dearest.

Where do I need to queue to collect my you're an evil Tory plant who bathes in the tears of the poor if you question the party's effectiveness sticker?

@Poetrypatty Try any of the former red wall areas for a start.

Try any of the former red wall areas for a start
That's a huge generalisation imo and also there will be some in the former red wall who will see through the Tories pretty soon once the economic impact kicks in, and who will reconsider and look again at Labour, who are far more electable now. I think people underestimate how much Corbyn was disliked and how much people didn't want to vote for him specifically.

To answer OP's original question, there is absolutely nothing the "Labour" party can do, it's hopelessly split, has no allegiance to socialist values and its current leader is dangerously inept and cannot unite the party. KS should be wiping the floor with Boris and the stinking corruption of the Tories, instead he struggles to stay ahead in the polls.

Can anyone point to a single achievement of KS, since he took over as "leader"?

Failure to take a stand and push hard for PR... Why?! As a pp said, it's our only hope of getting rid of Toryshambles.

The UK's political system is dying. "Constitutional monarchy" is meaningless bollocks. We have no constitution, and the monarch has been allowed to appropriate large areas of land in a relatively small country and do wtf she likes with it, while secretly influencing legislation in cohoots with the Tories and pretending to us that she isn't.

Radical change has to happen. We need some 21st-century Chartists. None of our systems are working and nobody is properly represented (apart from Boris and the corrupt elites).

I think the current mob in Westminster are all terrified of the scale of the problems and have no idea where to start in clearing up the mess, nor any will to do so.

Bring back Tony

@Poetrypatty

Try any of the former red wall areas for a start That's a huge generalisation imo and also there will be some in the former red wall who will see through the Tories pretty soon once the economic impact kicks in, and who will reconsider and look again at Labour, who are far more electable now. I think people underestimate how much Corbyn was disliked and how much people didn't want to vote for him specifically.

It is, but I live in one and can tell you it's the prevailing mood here when I'm out doing grassroots stuff.

I don’t think the U.K. is particularly socialist though.There’s the die hard gritty Labour voters snd the liberal, well paid arts supporters. Both quite entrenched.
The reason Tory’s do well is they gloss over things, Brexit, Covid, gas shortages. There’s no angst or long term hand wringing. Get it over with.

Whilst Labour are expecting meat from picking over the bones.

They need a pisitivrbvision for the future not just “ it’s all shit because of Tory’s”.

I actually think the Labour party is too tainted now and needs to be completely reborn 'New Labour' style. Although ironically it is my opinion that Brown's 'bigot' comment was the beginning of the end for Labour as we know it.

Give me a party of the sensible adult human moderates (currently seemingly biding their time in the wilderness) from the centre left and centre right and I'm there.

However, any party that said they were setting up a national college of care work, providing bursaries to train, a proper curriculum and training programme of working in care and a framework of pay and progression including progression onwards for those who wanted it to nursing/social work/mental health nursing/LD nursing qualifications would get my vote.

That should be Labour, but instead they are running around worrying about Palestine, Twitter and trying not to get caught out admitting knowing exactly what a woman is.

@BackBackBack

Very well said 👏

We don’t agree on everything, for example I would argue that shovelling ever more enormous mountains of money into the NHS without structural reform would be a waste, but overall you have posted a huge amount of good sense and your points about how what is supposed to be the workers’ party has been completely hijacked by a tiny unrepresentative minority are spot on.

Take a bow, that woman.

Strong values surrounding fairness...sounds like Keir Starmer to me. Both him and Sadiq Khan seem decent hardworking men with integrity. ** I don't care about charisma. Stella Creasy, Emily Thornberry, Lisa Nandy all impressive - I disagree Labour are unelectable.

At the risk of this descending into a congratulatory circle I agree with you about NHS reform @Libertaire it desperately needs a root and branch review, rather than chucking ever more funding at it.

@BellesBells

Strong values surrounding fairness...sounds like Keir Starmer to me. Both him and Sadiq Khan seem decent hardworking men with integrity. ** I don't care about charisma. Stella Creasy, Emily Thornberry, Lisa Nandy all impressive - I disagree Labour are unelectable.

I genuinely don't mean this in a goady way, it's an honest question. If you really don't think that Labour is unelectable, what do you think is stopping them from leading in the polls right now? Especially given the number of cock-ups this government has made.

I don’t think the U.K. is particularly socialist though.There’s the die hard gritty Labour voters snd the liberal, well paid arts supporters. Both quite entrenched.
The reason Tory’s do well is they gloss over things, Brexit, Covid, gas shortages. There’s no angst or long term hand wringing. Get it over with.

Good points. Where I think Labour could really do well is in current/former Tory seats in the Home Counties etc where someone like Keir Starmer who is moderate and sensible is likely to appeal.

I don’t think the U.K. is particularly socialist though

To remind myself, I just checked out governments since 1900. Leaving out minorities and coalitions, Labour's been in power for just 21 of those years, so on that basis you seem to be right (though of course circumstances have changed a lot in that time)

And Blair (later Brown) represented a whopping 13 of those ... which is perhaps why it's said they need someone like him again