The Labour Party are unelectable. Can they turn it around? What would they need to do to gain your trust?

[flashbac]

After another week of corrupt shenanigans from the Tories (last week was allowing literal shit pumping into watercourses, this week attempting to set aside a finding of dodgy dealings) we would still be stuck with them if there was a snap election tomorrow.

The Labour brand has become far too toxic. Keir is next to useless and all of them listen to the wrong people instead of instinctively knowing what to fight for. If they can turn it around and rebuild trust it won't be a quick or easy job. They have lost all credibility.

What do they need to do to rebuild trust or is it too late?

For me they need to start with the following:

• Get a leader with charisma and strong values surrounding fairness. The current one just doesn't cut it.
• know wtf a woman is. Stop trying to erase natal women as a sex class.

What's on your wishlist for a credible alternative to the Tories?

And as backed up by every single major pollster showing the Tories being in the lead, despite the Govt being a sleazy disaster of a shitshow. What does that say about how the electorate view the Labour party right now?

www.markpack.org.uk/155623/voting-intention-opinion-poll-scorecard/

Roughly how many women voters are concerned with TWAW. I am just wondering how big an issue it will be at the next general election? None of my friends talk about it. But they may have a view but don't share.

Policy suggestions on this thread are interesting/good but I do think people will judge Labour by their previous policies (PFI, WTC etc ...). And I don't think they have the guts to do something radical. They just seem to lack ooomph.

[quote BackBackBack]And as backed up by every single major pollster showing the Tories being in the lead, despite the Govt being a sleazy disaster of a shitshow. What does that say about how the electorate view the Labour party right now?

www.markpack.org.uk/155623/voting-intention-opinion-poll-scorecard/[/quote]
Absolutely. A alway decent party would be rinsing then Tories of vows right now. We’ve had sleaze, abuses of Parliament, a pandemic, food shortages, record energy prices, a fuel crisis, the fallout of Brexit, a PM who is a shambling joke…and still Labour is haemorrhaging votes to them. Johnson could admit publicly that he eats live kittens for breakfast and he’s still on track to win the next election.

@jewel1968

Roughly how many women voters are concerned with TWAW. I am just wondering how big an issue it will be at the next general election? None of my friends talk about it. But they may have a view but don't share.

Policy suggestions on this thread are interesting/good but I do think people will judge Labour by their previous policies (PFI, WTC etc ...). And I don't think they have the guts to do something radical. They just seem to lack ooomph.

For many people I don't think it's articulated as clearly as TWAW. But there has been ample coverage of women being arrested for being gender critical and the impact on women's sports. There is a lot of local news as well particularly about schools and children's clubs like girl guiding. A lot of parents are concerned and whilst they might not say much, Labour is busy writing press headlines to associate itself with the cause du jour, and it gets noticed - and the results of opinions about this come out at the ballot box.

Roughly how many women voters are concerned with TWAW. I am just wondering how big an issue it will be at the next general election? None of my friends talk about it. But they may have a view but don't share.

It’s tempting to say it’s just a MN thing but it’s becoming a much bigger issue. The BBC is reporting far more on in, as are other other mainstream media outlets, including the Mail who have a HUGE readership. The treatment of Kathleen Stock is making a lot of people realise that there’s something going on that they hadn’t previously known about, plus the press have realised there’s good mileage in tripping politicians up with “What is a woman?” type questions.

I think it will be a far bigger issue at the next election than previously, not least because GC campaigners can speak and campaign more freely after the Maya Forstater ruling (which ruled that GC views are protected by law). I suspect that Tories will also have realised that there’s political capital in the self ID/freedom of speech policies.

I don't need a leader with charisma. Personality is over-rated. Bojo has personality but is still terrible.

But I do want a leader who backs women's rights rather than throws them under the bus....

I think the Labour Party is over tbh. It's now a series of factions that are busy fighting amongst themselves. The party is so polarised I can't see them uniting around a common set of policies now.

@jewel1968

Roughly how many women voters are concerned with TWAW. I am just wondering how big an issue it will be at the next general election? None of my friends talk about it. But they may have a view but don't share.

Policy suggestions on this thread are interesting/good but I do think people will judge Labour by their previous policies (PFI, WTC etc ...). And I don't think they have the guts to do something radical. They just seem to lack ooomph.

The recent upset in American politics that’s dominated the news over the weekend is largely attributed to the losing sides pushing of TWAW and self-ID and as far as I know, there isn’t a sizeable majority of American women that use, or are even aware, of MN…

^^ Sorry, that was meant to add, it is also said that women voters swung that particular vote completely around which had voted the opposite way the previous time

People like to claim self ID is a niche MN obsession but it is definitely becoming more mainstream now there is less fear about speaking out despite the awful treatment of Kathleen Stock, JK Rowling and many others. Most people have a live and let live attitude about it all until they find out more details and then they are usually shocked at what is going on and what is being proposed.

Such an important point. I really hope Labour are paying attention to that. Women may well be keeping their views private - you know, not wanting to lose their jobs or be told to suck a ladydick - but anyone who has given this issue any serious thought will be deeply concerned.

Hurray for the UK becoming as right wing as the most red necked of America. What a pathetic attempt to distort your dislike of labour.

Elect Thornberry as their Leader with Reeves as the Deputy. I might vote for them if they did.

KS is massively appealing to me, seem upstanding etc. However I have zero idea what labour policies currently are.

Need a new Tony Blair to be electable I think

@LadyWithLapdog

Hurray for the UK becoming as right wing as the most red necked of America. What a pathetic attempt to distort your dislike of labour.

Read the thread. It's really lazy and dismissive to tell people they are red necks, and absolutely indicative of exactly the type of problems the party need to tackle.

@Muminabun

Stop having policies about taxing people more who earn over 70k. This will frighten off so many voters who already pay so much tax. Recognise women as a separate sex class and abide by the law in that respect. So worrying for safeguarding of women and children especially in vulnerable positions like schools, prisons and care homes. Everyone is fed up of the annoying, know it all, 6th former, wokery, tedious bollocks. All the support for hamas and anti Semitism is totally unacceptable

Labour support Hamas? Who, what, why, when? Bollocks mate.

@FOJN

People like to claim self ID is a niche MN obsession but it is definitely becoming more mainstream now there is less fear about speaking out despite the awful treatment of Kathleen Stock, JK Rowling and many others. Most people have a live and let live attitude about it all until they find out more details and then they are usually shocked at what is going on and what is being proposed.

Yep - I am now hearing it talked about at work (very traditional type industry). People are baffled and bemused by it.

@LadyWithLapdog

Hurray for the UK becoming as right wing as the most red necked of America. What a pathetic attempt to distort your dislike of labour.

I despise the Tories. I am waiting for a political party to step up to the plate and save us from what I see is the steady march to fascism but Labour are falling short by a huge margin. There's an open goal but they keep missing it.

Restore the whip to Jeremy. Stop expelling socialists. Campaign for decent policies

If it's a good, fit-for-purpose NC, then maybe private schools will freely choose to follow it. If it isn't, and they're forced to, then this just seems like politics of envy. If we're resigned to children being 'subject' to an awful NC, and the concern is that some children from wealthy families might escape that and shouldn't be allowed to, we might as well scrap the idea of having a NC altogether.

(For context, I've worked in schools, and barring a lottery win won't ever be able to send a child to private school.)

Interesting, so people think it's (TWAW) a bigger issue than one might think. I am struck by the number of female friends I have that avoid the subject. Wonder what the focus groups are telling them....

Labour has never had a female leader ...

Which rather suggests that the unions wouldn't wear it
No surprise really, since some of their bosses are the biggest misogynist dinosaurs of the lot

They've gone down this route of being weirdly woke, which I dislike.

1. stop with the woke/twaw - win back the traditional female labour voter.
2. get rid of keir starmer.
3. build up the local party again, its weak and this means the candidates coming through are abysmal. They need a wing within the party focussing on developinh stronger parliamentary candidates - this is needs to be separated from local councillors.
4. accept a little bit of middle ground. Centre left is ok.

Labour have relied for too long on unions for both manpower and money. Unions are much weaker than they were and they need other branches of support.

@GreenWhiteViolet

If it's a good, fit-for-purpose NC, then maybe private schools will freely choose to follow it. If it isn't, and they're forced to, then this just seems like politics of envy. If we're resigned to children being 'subject' to an awful NC, and the concern is that some children from wealthy families might escape that and shouldn't be allowed to, we might as well scrap the idea of having a NC altogether.

(For context, I've worked in schools, and barring a lottery win won't ever be able to send a child to private school.)

Yes it would need to be a really good and fit for purpose NC, hence putting it in the hands of teaching staff. All children should have the benefit of an excellent education, not just a lucky few. I don't think it would be the politics of envy to level up the education playing field, bearing in mind that children from better-off families will already have the advantages of tutoring, connections, being able to afford internships and so on.

@jewel1968

Interesting, so people think it's (TWAW) a bigger issue than one might think. I am struck by the number of female friends I have that avoid the subject. Wonder what the focus groups are telling them....

I’ve only ever voted Labour and I Also avoid the subject unless I know the ppl I’m talking too really well, and know they won’t abuse me for thinking that men however they present are not women

I won’t vote Labour again until they stop pretending they don’t know what a woman is
So I’m stuck with no one to vote for

There is no way I’d ever vote for labour at the moment. Kier Starmer is ineffective. Angela Rayner is a crass vile mouthpiece. And the rest of them? Don’t get me started.