Can my employer ban me from the office?

[Anothercovidthread]

NC.
I have recently started a new job. It is a non customer facing office job, based in Scotland. The company is very large. I have been working from home since I began the job due to covid restrictions. Today, we were told that we will return to the office towards the end of the month and going forwards we will do 3 days in, and 2 days from home. However, to enter the office, you must show proof of having had 2 covid vaccines. My employer will not store details of who has been vaccinated, you just need to show the info to enter. If you have not had the vaccine you are not allowed in the office unless special circumstances and permissions are agreed directly with HR.

I'm still in probation so very concerned about kicking up a fuss but I think this is very wrong.

1. Why should I have to share medical information with reception staff on a daily basis for the foreseeable?
2. Can the company legally ban people from the office for not having a non mandatory vaccine?
3. Assuming that if you have some kind of non vax agreement with HR, you are provided with some other documentation allowing entry to the office, is the company allowed to insist that its shown on a daily basis to whoever is on reception?

AIBU, the employer is just taking steps to keep people safe?

This kind of policy doesn't make me feel safe.
it makes me feel like I'm living with Big Brother.

It reminds me that my medical information is no longer private.

It reminds me that policies are capricious -- no one is insisting on all vaccines, just covid. Flu or Mumps etc. don't matter (for now). I feel unsafe when the policy has no relation to what is most dangerous disease.

It reminds me that employers have powers over our medical status -- if one employer is legally allowed to do this, they all are.

In my industry overwhelmingly implements this policy, then my whole career is now unsafe. I would have zero choice to stay in the career.

Oh, and on top of that, people screech "you fucking idiot" if you disagree with the policy. So there is that feeling of being attacked to contend with.

The entire policy strategy makes me feel deeply unsafe and like there is No Choice at all.

Yes, info this was “conspiracy theories” about a year or so ago. Now it is the new normal and perfectly splendid for many. For me even though I am vaccinated it is a nightmare come true.

The more left leaning the country the worst.

Jesus why are people still saying I’m not comfortable showing my medical information. It’s just a vaccine pass on your phone no medical information just proof that you’ve been vaccinated. I can only think of 1 reasons why your not happy because you’ve not had the vaccine?.
Tbh if it was me it would make me feel safer that everyone I work with is vaccinated.

Within the HR community (I happen to be in the NHS) there are discussions about mandating vaccines potentially being discriminatory on grounds of belief, which is a protected characteristic. But it would need to be tested in court to establish whether that were actually the case. (Along the lines of Maya Forstater’s case about being gender critical.)

My experience so far

-I’ve had Covid, I was in the bad cold category

• I’ve had two vaccines as an adult. Both provoked significant unexpected reactions, I feel like I’m that outlier for ‘unusual’. One I had a rash, which then also caused the same blood spot rash and swelling in my gut. Not comfortable, lots of weight loss and knock on illnesses recovering. Put down as one of those things and ignored it.

The next time I became quite rapidly unwell over a day, I spent a week in HDU with concerns about my fast heart rate, kidney function included and swelling as well as a rash. I wasn’t anti-vax and went it to it all positively. I was shocked by it. I was also left with two years of debilitating headaches called cluster headaches, it affected my ability to work.

I’m frankly not willing to roll the dice again for the sake of an illness if had already and will have som immunity to. Just for the sake of others.

Maybe if a medical professional properly went through my experience with me, we discussed it all properly and looked at what happened. But that’s not an option is it. I have to go in blind, not knowing how likely a more severe reaction is because I’m not allowed a discussion. I will only be coerced into it.

Btw the previous two were whooping cough and flu, I’ve struggled to find out much about rare reactions to them. But I was treated both times as reacting to the jabs I had. I’m not anti-bad at all, great if there’s a vax out there that is nearly universally ok. But I’m simply not at this point ok with my own personal risk from personal experience.

I’d never get an exemption, but I don’t feel like I have such an easy choice either as many are claiming. I have 5 kids and I don’t want to risk being away from them. We’ve all had Covid so we will have natural immunity. Lastly, at the moment lots of people I know who are double jabbed are catching it and passing it locally- I don’t feel like I’m posing more risk to others.

@Namechangedforthethousandthtim

This is really bad, as there has been significant research to show that a large number of those who got serious and life changing vaccine side effects already had natural immunity from covid when they were vaccinated. Forcing people to get vaccinated when they already have significant antibodies from having covid, is not only stupid but actually extremely dangerous. I can understand people being nervous but this is ridiculous.

Where’d you make this up from?

The only reason the vaccine was developed so quickly is because all of the usual barriers were removed - thousands of scientists were freed up from other work, decades of scientific development provided the technology and basis for the vaccine and money was pumped in from the start where usually there are phased grants. It was rigorously tested and I’ve had both shots plus my booster despite never ever going near patients (I go near other people who do go near patients).

If you don’t want it, don’t have it. But please make sure it’s for the right reasons and not based on bollocks.

It’s bizarre that having the vaccine is so vital going into winter that it won’t come into law for NHS staff until next Spring! One outbreak in Australia has been traced to a gym that only the unvaccinated can use and people have been shocked at this being possible.

It’s all a bit pointless and muddled really but a lot of people like to virtue signal about having the vaccine, framing it as caring for others when obviously they only had it for their own benefit.

I had the vaccine and have had to show proof a few times and tbh it doesn’t bother me but I can understand some people really don’t want to. A lot of people only seem to think in black and white with no nuance possible and are aggressive about their position as seen on this thread.

Hardly detailed medical information! Can’t possibly comprehend how this is intrusive in anyway

OP YABVVVU and quite a sick for this comment alone

It wouldn't be ideal if the whole team came down with covid but it wouldn't be catastrophic.

This reeks of selfishness. I'm alright jack, who cares about anyone else?

I now think this is simply a goady post as I can't believe anyone would think like this let alone type it out....

Peak viral load no difference in vaxxed or unvaxxed.

But the vaxxed are less likely to get Covid in the first place, so less likely to spread it. Also may be at peak viral load for a shorter time.

It's not an absolute guarantee, and if you work with very vulnerable people, it would be desirable to get regular tests as well. But vaccinations do reduce the likelihood of spread.

I believe it is also true that the Government removed the right to take legal action against the companies that developed the vaccine. We are told it’s safe but no long term studies have been undertaken. I’m not an anti-vaxer or a Covid denier but there could be long term effects surely.

[quote Anothercovidthread]@burnto I really don't feel comfortable sharing the information. If it was a one off and the details could be added to my pass then I could maybe understand but to have to show the information 3 times a week to different people, I just don't see that its anyones business. If the vaccine was mandatory then fair enough but its not. In Scotland, care staff do not have to have it either, thats only England as far as I'm aware.[/quote]
What is the problem though with sharing the information. Its just a card with your name and the vaccine you had on it and the date. What is it you think someone could do with that data other than be informed that you're vaccinated, when and by what? Oh and your name... but you work there... I understand people not wanting private information shared that could lead to misuse or is very personal i.e. detailed medical records about mental health. But this? You're really not sounding logical OP sorry

I'm sleep deprived so may have completely got the wrong end of the stick.

I'm confused by people asking if the op doesn't care about their colleagues. I thought that getting vaccinated protects the vaccinated person I.e. if they catch COVID the symptoms/ effects will be reduced? This then has a positive outcome for the NHS and therefore wider society as there is less strain on NHS resources. I was under the impression that to minimise transmission we have to continue with other measures e.g. masks, handwashing, distancing etc.

I very much believe that it is the sensible and right thing to get the vaccine but I think we still need to take precautions to reduce the transmission of the virus too.

@lljkk

This kind of policy doesn't make me feel safe. it makes me feel like I'm living with Big Brother.

It reminds me that my medical information is no longer private.

It reminds me that policies are capricious -- no one is insisting on all vaccines, just covid. Flu or Mumps etc. don't matter (for now). I feel unsafe when the policy has no relation to what is most dangerous disease.

It reminds me that employers have powers over our medical status -- if one employer is legally allowed to do this, they all are.

In my industry overwhelmingly implements this policy, then my whole career is now unsafe. I would have zero choice to stay in the career.

Oh, and on top of that, people screech "you fucking idiot" if you disagree with the policy. So there is that feeling of being attacked to contend with.

The entire policy strategy makes me feel deeply unsafe and like there is No Choice at all.

It's a pass on your phone, not your medical information.

[quote Anothercovidthread]@burnto I really don't feel comfortable sharing the information. If it was a one off and the details could be added to my pass then I could maybe understand but to have to show the information 3 times a week to different people, I just don't see that its anyones business. If the vaccine was mandatory then fair enough but its not. In Scotland, care staff do not have to have it either, thats only England as far as I'm aware.[/quote]
If you’ve not had the vaccine then you’re not sharing anything because you’re not getting through the door!
To visit some countries abroad you have to show proof of certain vaccines, eg Yellow fever. If you haven’t had that vaccine, you’re not allowed in.
Presumably you’re still allowed to WFH if you’re unvaccinated?

@lljkk

This kind of policy doesn't make me feel safe. it makes me feel like I'm living with Big Brother.

It reminds me that my medical information is no longer private.

It reminds me that policies are capricious -- no one is insisting on all vaccines, just covid. Flu or Mumps etc. don't matter (for now). I feel unsafe when the policy has no relation to what is most dangerous disease.

It reminds me that employers have powers over our medical status -- if one employer is legally allowed to do this, they all are.

In my industry overwhelmingly implements this policy, then my whole career is now unsafe. I would have zero choice to stay in the career.

Oh, and on top of that, people screech "you fucking idiot" if you disagree with the policy. So there is that feeling of being attacked to contend with.

The entire policy strategy makes me feel deeply unsafe and like there is No Choice at all.

What is it about this that makes you feel unsafe? Unsafe in what way?

The ICO have taken a very strange (and completely legally inaccurate) stance that just seeing your vaccine status doesn't class as processing, so unfortunately that means they're saying it's outside the scope of data protection legislation in this context so raising issues around not being happy with people outside of HR etc seeing it has no weight.

It wouldn't stand up in court but whose going to spend the time and money challenging that?

@NavigatingAdolescence

Within the HR community (I happen to be in the NHS) there are discussions about mandating vaccines potentially being discriminatory on grounds of belief, which is a protected characteristic. But it would need to be tested in court to establish whether that were actually the case. (Along the lines of Maya Forstater’s case about being gender critical.)

It would have to be a religious or philosophical belief. It would be very difficult indeed to establish that a belief based on things like internet research came within either of those categories.

It’s not just a pass on your phone it’s the ability to work and earn a living if you are not vaccinated.

@Namechangedforthethousandthtim

This is really bad, as there has been significant research to show that a large number of those who got serious and life changing vaccine side effects already had natural immunity from covid when they were vaccinated. Forcing people to get vaccinated when they already have significant antibodies from having covid, is not only stupid but actually extremely dangerous. I can understand people being nervous but this is ridiculous.

Please share a link to the scientific evidence, I’m curious to read it.

Completely reasonable, it’s about protecting others.

Get vaccinated!

@Namechangedforthethousandthtim

This is really bad, as there has been significant research to show that a large number of those who got serious and life changing vaccine side effects already had natural immunity from covid when they were vaccinated. Forcing people to get vaccinated when they already have significant antibodies from having covid, is not only stupid but actually extremely dangerous. I can understand people being nervous but this is ridiculous.

Is this from the Facebook Medical Research Institute for Complete Bollocks?

@BurntO

You feel uncomfortable sharing the fact you have been vaccinated? During a pandemic? That’s your issue? It’s a matter of public health, it’s not hard to see why it IS everyone’s business right now.

Good post

I don’t really understand the angst here either. I do not classify showing you’re vaccinated as showing your medical records, and for those exempt I’m sure hr can provide a signed email saying exempt.