Can my employer ban me from the office?

[Anothercovidthread]

NC.
I have recently started a new job. It is a non customer facing office job, based in Scotland. The company is very large. I have been working from home since I began the job due to covid restrictions. Today, we were told that we will return to the office towards the end of the month and going forwards we will do 3 days in, and 2 days from home. However, to enter the office, you must show proof of having had 2 covid vaccines. My employer will not store details of who has been vaccinated, you just need to show the info to enter. If you have not had the vaccine you are not allowed in the office unless special circumstances and permissions are agreed directly with HR.

I'm still in probation so very concerned about kicking up a fuss but I think this is very wrong.

1. Why should I have to share medical information with reception staff on a daily basis for the foreseeable?
2. Can the company legally ban people from the office for not having a non mandatory vaccine?
3. Assuming that if you have some kind of non vax agreement with HR, you are provided with some other documentation allowing entry to the office, is the company allowed to insist that its shown on a daily basis to whoever is on reception?

AIBU, the employer is just taking steps to keep people safe?

@MaxNormal

And they showed their vaccine passport on the way in

Nope, they were exempt for some strange reason.

Sorry, what??

Any link for this please?

Cheers.

🥱 🥱 Just show them the details.

But that doesn't even make sense, you know? Vaccinated people can still catch it - they can still spread it. There are people for whom the vaccine is not particularly effective. Should they "stay at home" for all eternity? I am one such person and unfortunately I have to go to work, earn money, do shopping and take my kids to and from school and other activities...

@Malibuismysecrethome

If nearly everyone, myself included, are fully-vaccinated why does it matter if a few people chose not to be vaccinated. Surely the vaccinated are immune.

My work has conducted a survey of people who are vaccinated, rather than ask for proof. With a high vaccination rate, a small percentage of non-vaccinated won't make much difference. Unfortunately, in many countries the vaccination rate is very low, and vaccine mandates are being implemented, or have to be.

@MadeItOut21

Get vaccinated or stay home.

Brilliant.

So all the vaccinated people can mingle and catch/spread it

So if as I suspect the op is unvaccinated and she’s facing being banned from her office, or being allowed in and her colleagues knowing she poses an additional risk to them , then I can see why that might cause her anxiety quite frankly.

I think she is vaccinated. She is worried about physically showing the proof that she is rather than being worried about being banned from the office. If she wasn't vaccinated she wouldn't be worried about showing the proof of vaccination 3 times a week.

@BoredZelda

This is really bad, as there has been significant research to show that a large number of those who got serious and life changing vaccine side effects already had natural immunity from covid when they were vaccinated.

Yeah, My best friend’s sister’s boyfriend’s brother’s girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who’s going with a girl who had this happen to them, so I guess it must be pretty serious.

How can you know that? No ones immunity was tested prior to vaccination, and once vaccinated you have no idea when they acquired immunity.

Absolute nonsense.

@Malibuismysecrethome

If nearly everyone, myself included, are fully-vaccinated why does it matter if a few people chose not to be vaccinated. Surely the vaccinated are immune.

No, there are many immune suppressed people who have had the vaccine but not developed any immunity. I've had 3 vaccines but still showing no antibodies. Out of the 250,000 people in the UK with a blood cancer, about a third of them are the same as me.

@doublemonkey the delegates are exempt:
www.scotsman.com/news/politics/covid-scotland-tens-of-thousands-of-cop26-attendees-to-be-exempt-from-vaccine-passport-scheme-3407208
Obviously doesn't apply to the plebs.

@nojudgementhere thank you, what a nice mesage to read

It isn't about having the vaccine, I have to carry the data on my phone or on paper, in my bag and show it to lots of people. The thought of this is terrifying me. This is data that to me is very private.

Do you know how much data you carry with you every day?

The covid passport literally has your name and date of birth (which is the same information that is printed on the driving licence, as well as having my name printed on my bank cards, that I also carry with me in my purse) and a QR code that gives your vaccine information (date of vaccination/batches) if it is scanned with a green band saying "Valid".

How much of that information is "scary" to carry round (considering that my phone contains practically all of my information already)?

@MaxNormal

I really, really wish we could have a more nuanced discussion about this. Vaccine/covid passes for entry or as a work requirement are, as I stated earlier, a big change to our relationship with both the state and private employers. Having discomfort about that, questioning it, worrrying about the bigger societal picture beyond covid is not being "anti-vax", which in itself is an incredibly unfair dismissal of people's concerns.

People might have all sorts of complex medical backgrounds that make them reluctant to have this particular vaccine, that have nothing to do with them being thick, an anti-vaxxer, a conspiracy theorist, or whatever other slurs it's such fun to direct at them. Or people might be vaccinated and still very uncomfortable with direction of travel.

It is utterly dispiriting to see the level of discourse on this, here and on social media. The dismissal and sneering is really unpleasant.

Someone mentioned earlier that there were other times in history when the state has claimed extraordinary powers - yes, the second world war. And they liked that very well indeed, so much so that they hung onto those powers for an extra six years and it took a court case to finally get them to reliquish them.

Covid is not the only thing that is important, and we can't just fundamentally alter society, or cede our rights to informed medical consent, without having some sort of discussion about it. At least, we shouldn't in an ideal world.

Completely agree with this.

There were two main reasons my org went for lateral flow tests rather than any other info.

• it requires the minimum health related info and it expires rapidly
• vaccination status is not evidence of non infection. Vaccinated people pass on the disease, flow tests are more effective if you want to reduce infection rather than perform covid theatre

Electing to have medical procedures and share information for elective leisure activities is also a world away from being told you will lose your job unless you submit to mandated medical procedure (not not just a medical or a test but a procedure).

This does change the relationship between people and the state and its being done under force majeure with no end date and no discussion as to how to minimise or timelimit the changes.

It's to keep people safe and to stop Covid outbreaks.
If you're concerned and don't want to share the info, can you work from home? Surely they have an alternative if you need the proof to get through the door.

I really don’t think it would be wrong to point out to management that by deciding not to collect the vaccination information, they are actually asking people to expose their vaccination information more frequently. HR should have procedures in place for storing sensitive data. All they have to do is use those and all they have to store is a check mark of acceptable information submitted or not. While it would be useful to store more details in case the rules change in the future, they can always have people resubmit the information at that time.

[quote MaxNormal]@doublemonkey the delegates are exempt:
www.scotsman.com/news/politics/covid-scotland-tens-of-thousands-of-cop26-attendees-to-be-exempt-from-vaccine-passport-scheme-3407208
Obviously doesn't apply to the plebs.

@nojudgementhere thank you, what a nice mesage to read [/quote]
Thank you. It's gobsmacking and galling in equal measure.

Why isn't the penny dropping with people?

Well they delegates nearly all arrived individually by private jet, in many cases after visiting other countries first, then departed by private jet.

No worries about travel for them.

[quote MaxNormal]@doublemonkey the delegates are exempt:
www.scotsman.com/news/politics/covid-scotland-tens-of-thousands-of-cop26-attendees-to-be-exempt-from-vaccine-passport-scheme-3407208
Obviously doesn't apply to the plebs.

@nojudgementhere thank you, what a nice mesage to read [/quote]
Doesn't that say that delegates have to do a LFT every day though? Plus unvaccinated red country arrivals had to quarantine.

Doesn't that say that delegates have to do a LFT every day though? Plus unvaccinated red country arrivals had to quarantine.

Well if it's ok for delegates who've just flown in from abroad to show a LFT every day then it should be ok for OP and other NHS workers to do likewise, right?

@MaxNormal

*I really, really wish we could have a more nuanced discussion about this. Vaccine/covid passes for entry or as a work requirement are, as I stated earlier, a big change to our relationship with both the state and private employers. Having discomfort about that, questioning it, worrrying about the bigger societal picture beyond covid is not being "anti-vax", which in itself is an incredibly unfair dismissal of people's concerns.

People might have all sorts of complex medical backgrounds that make them reluctant to have this particular vaccine, that have nothing to do with them being thick, an anti-vaxxer, a conspiracy theorist, or whatever other slurs it's such fun to direct at them. Or people might be vaccinated and still very uncomfortable with direction of travel.

It is utterly dispiriting to see the level of discourse on this, here and on social media. The dismissal and sneering is really unpleasant.*

This, from you, is incredibly hypocritical. I've never seen you do anything but sneer and dismiss. Nuanced discourse? Please. You and posters like you shut debate down immediately. That's dispiriting.

@Dishhh I don't even know who you are. Ice barely posted for months either. But thanks for that.

Wow! The venom is palpable! Maybe you shoud wait until you have a valid point to add to the argument nstead of just flinging insults at people who are actually coming across as very balanced and reasonable?

There's an app for Scotland where you just show them the qrcode. No personal details about any medical issues.. literally a qr code..

If your unvax'd then yeh it's an issue but otherwise what's your problem? 🤷🏼‍♀️

Also the amount of people genuinely medically exempt from the vaccine is extremely low.
It's not a exemption like masks etc.. it's life of death exemption so if you think your exempt you'd already know :)

@nojudgementhere

Wow! The venom is palpable! Maybe you shoud wait until you have a valid point to add to the argument nstead of just flinging insults at people who are actually coming across as very balanced and reasonable?

I'm not sure how long you've been on this board - but Max isn't really that balanced.

[quote MaxNormal]@Dishhh I don't even know who you are. Ice barely posted for months either. But thanks for that.[/quote]

It doesn't bother me that you haven't a clue who I am. And who is Ice?