Can my employer ban me from the office?

[Anothercovidthread]

NC.
I have recently started a new job. It is a non customer facing office job, based in Scotland. The company is very large. I have been working from home since I began the job due to covid restrictions. Today, we were told that we will return to the office towards the end of the month and going forwards we will do 3 days in, and 2 days from home. However, to enter the office, you must show proof of having had 2 covid vaccines. My employer will not store details of who has been vaccinated, you just need to show the info to enter. If you have not had the vaccine you are not allowed in the office unless special circumstances and permissions are agreed directly with HR.

I'm still in probation so very concerned about kicking up a fuss but I think this is very wrong.

1. Why should I have to share medical information with reception staff on a daily basis for the foreseeable?
2. Can the company legally ban people from the office for not having a non mandatory vaccine?
3. Assuming that if you have some kind of non vax agreement with HR, you are provided with some other documentation allowing entry to the office, is the company allowed to insist that its shown on a daily basis to whoever is on reception?

AIBU, the employer is just taking steps to keep people safe?

Not rtft, but all of OPs posts. I see you are in Scotland op, and wonder if it might help if you were to download the checking app used to check vaccination status in Scotland and run your own details through it? That would allow you to see precisely how much information would be available to your reception staff. (Iirc It really isn't much.)

And they showed their vaccine passport on the way in

Nope, they were exempt for some strange reason.

I'm seeing all these world leaders in Scotland with no masks and no social distancing,

Like this?

I feel more uncomfortable filling in a “health questionnaire” form when I go for a massage or some such. Why is it their business, how will they change if I declare recurrent UTIs, let’s say, and where is my info being kept? Flashing my NHS Covid status at a young person who waves me through for an event, no.

I have just downloaded the NHS Scotland status checker and run my details through it (scanned the barcode). All that the checker brought up was my name, a green tick for verified and an expiry date next year. There was nothing else at all.

Sounds more like you don’t want everyone to know you’re an anti vaxxer!

I really, really wish we could have a more nuanced discussion about this. Vaccine/covid passes for entry or as a work requirement are, as I stated earlier, a big change to our relationship with both the state and private employers. Having discomfort about that, questioning it, worrrying about the bigger societal picture beyond covid is not being "anti-vax", which in itself is an incredibly unfair dismissal of people's concerns.

People might have all sorts of complex medical backgrounds that make them reluctant to have this particular vaccine, that have nothing to do with them being thick, an anti-vaxxer, a conspiracy theorist, or whatever other slurs it's such fun to direct at them. Or people might be vaccinated and still very uncomfortable with direction of travel.

It is utterly dispiriting to see the level of discourse on this, here and on social media. The dismissal and sneering is really unpleasant.

Someone mentioned earlier that there were other times in history when the state has claimed extraordinary powers - yes, the second world war. And they liked that very well indeed, so much so that they hung onto those powers for an extra six years and it took a court case to finally get them to reliquish them.

Covid is not the only thing that is important, and we can't just fundamentally alter society, or cede our rights to informed medical consent, without having some sort of discussion about it. At least, we shouldn't in an ideal world.

YABU. There is a pandemic on.

@Anothercovidthread

Thank you to all those who have been supportive and also to those who have shared their opposing views constructively, I have a lot to consider. I am not going to reply anymore, I really appreciate the feedback received. It has become clear to me I have been affected by the lockdowns/restrictions and am suffering anxiety. I was unaware of this and have never experied anxiety before. It is frightening. I will contact my GP on monday. In the same way that pp are insisting my colleagues must be protected and their health supported, I also deserve these rights too and my mental health is equally important.

You seem to be ignoring the fact that your work are in fact ALREADY supporting and protecting YOUR health by insisting that people demonstrate that they are vaccinated.

What other rights do you want to have that you claim your colleagues are entitled to, and not you?

@Walkaround

Sometimes it is reasonable to expect information from people - eg if someone has HIV before you have unprotected sex.

I don’t see asking for your vaccine status relating to a communicable disease passed on simply by being near other people during a pandemic of that disease as an unreasonable request. Asking if you have chlamydia before you’re allowed in would be another matter.

@Walkaround a blanket comment comparing asking if someone has HIV really isn’t the same thing when talking about risk since the vast majority living with it in the U.K. are on effective treatment, so zero risk to sexual partners even when having unprotected sex. It would be a different matter for the minority who have a detectable viral load and they of course should share this information.

Asking about previous partners and when STI testing was last done would be a better risk assessment if thinking of having unprotected sex, much like asking about someone’s COVID vaccine status in other settings.

All blood donors are now asked if they’ve had anal sex in the last 3 months. Makes a vaccine passport seem pretty tame.

@NavigatingAdolescence

All blood donors are now asked if they’ve had anal sex in the last 3 months. Makes a vaccine passport seem pretty tame.

Are they! I'll need to remember this when I next donate !

Yup. And chemsex too.

@LadyWithLapdog Some health conditions are contraindications for massage, requiring adjustment to the treatment or making it unsafe for a treatment to occur at all. If we don’t fill in a consultation form with a client to check for these conditions, our insurance could be left invalid.

@Spudlet what sort of contraindications? Wouldn’t it be easier to list those instead? Less intrusive, you see you don’t qualify then you don’t even book in. Because what usually happens is that the person on reception gives you the form and then it’s filed away, nobody discusses with you how your blood pressure is controlled or whatever. I’m genuinely curious.

I went to see a west end show about 6 weeks ago and myself and DH had to show proof of vaccinations to a member of staff on the door or we weren't getting in.It was a condition of being able to purchase tickets.

I don't see how showing your Covid vaccine passport is any different;you simply download it and show it upon entry into work.

They can't store your information on file most likely due to GDPR.

Unfortunately this is now life at the moment;it won't be like this forever;I'm pretty sure if it's the same reception staff each morning they'll get to know who has a valid Covid passport and who doesn't.

Sadly, this is the world we now live in. Covid is the only illness to ever exist (you only have to look at the people on here who still scream ISOLATE when you have taken ten PCRs to prove that your cold is...er...a cold), and those who are unable or unwilling to have a non-mandatory vaccine, which does nothing to reduce or prevent transmission, are now second-class citizens. But it’s “all for the best” eh? 🙄🙄🙄 sorry you’re having to go through this OP.

@MaxNormal

I really, really wish we could have a more nuanced discussion about this. Vaccine/covid passes for entry or as a work requirement are, as I stated earlier, a big change to our relationship with both the state and private employers. Having discomfort about that, questioning it, worrrying about the bigger societal picture beyond covid is not being "anti-vax", which in itself is an incredibly unfair dismissal of people's concerns.

People might have all sorts of complex medical backgrounds that make them reluctant to have this particular vaccine, that have nothing to do with them being thick, an anti-vaxxer, a conspiracy theorist, or whatever other slurs it's such fun to direct at them. Or people might be vaccinated and still very uncomfortable with direction of travel.

It is utterly dispiriting to see the level of discourse on this, here and on social media. The dismissal and sneering is really unpleasant.

Someone mentioned earlier that there were other times in history when the state has claimed extraordinary powers - yes, the second world war. And they liked that very well indeed, so much so that they hung onto those powers for an extra six years and it took a court case to finally get them to reliquish them.

Covid is not the only thing that is important, and we can't just fundamentally alter society, or cede our rights to informed medical consent, without having some sort of discussion about it. At least, we shouldn't in an ideal world.

@MaxNormal you said it much better than I could. Totally agree with everything you’ve written; we are sleepwalking into a very disturbing, “no-debate” world “for the greater good”,

I can see why if you’re not vaccinated through choice you would be very worried about having to explain that to your colleagues and also others who need to check if you are. And that’s what life is about to become, checking, others knowing, being banned from places, job losses.

It’s very different if someone is medically exempt, but the reality is 90 percent of the population has went and got vaccinated, in an attempt to protect themselves, reduce transmission, protect the vulnerable who either can’t be vaccinated or who it could be serious to fatal for and to get life back to normal

Those who choose not to, from the conspiracy theorists on, are not viewed well by the general population. People know you’re more at risk from an unvaccinated person and as much as everyone accepts that risk from someone who simply can’t be vaccinated, lots of people really aren’t that keen to accept the risk from someone who could be vaccinated and chooses not to be.

So if as I suspect the op is unvaccinated and she’s facing being banned from her office, or being allowed in and her colleagues knowing she poses an additional risk to them , then I can see why that might cause her anxiety quite frankly.

If nearly everyone, myself included, are fully-vaccinated why does it matter if a few people chose not to be vaccinated. Surely the vaccinated are immune.

Anxiety. Always a good get-out clause.

@MaxNormal I agree. On a practical level, I don't really give a shit about testing twice a week and waving my phone at security. However, it's completely for show, since you don't even need to do the test in order to register it as negative. On an ethical level, I don't think it is really fair to demand that people reveal their vaccination status to do normal things, like going to work. Not in the long term, anyway. But I doubt it will continue in the long term.

Considering that vaccinated people can still catch it and spread it, it also seems a teeny bit pointless.

My organisation has asked people to wfh if they have symptomatic illness (regardless of Covid test or vaccine status) and that seems more logical to me. Although some of my colleagues are for sure taking the piss 😀

Get vaccinated or stay home.

@MaxNormal

I really, really wish we could have a more nuanced discussion about this. Vaccine/covid passes for entry or as a work requirement are, as I stated earlier, a big change to our relationship with both the state and private employers. Having discomfort about that, questioning it, worrrying about the bigger societal picture beyond covid is not being "anti-vax", which in itself is an incredibly unfair dismissal of people's concerns.

People might have all sorts of complex medical backgrounds that make them reluctant to have this particular vaccine, that have nothing to do with them being thick, an anti-vaxxer, a conspiracy theorist, or whatever other slurs it's such fun to direct at them. Or people might be vaccinated and still very uncomfortable with direction of travel.

It is utterly dispiriting to see the level of discourse on this, here and on social media. The dismissal and sneering is really unpleasant.

Someone mentioned earlier that there were other times in history when the state has claimed extraordinary powers - yes, the second world war. And they liked that very well indeed, so much so that they hung onto those powers for an extra six years and it took a court case to finally get them to reliquish them.

Covid is not the only thing that is important, and we can't just fundamentally alter society, or cede our rights to informed medical consent, without having some sort of discussion about it. At least, we shouldn't in an ideal world.

Thank you! What a lovely, heartening message to read. So nice to see that some people have retained their critical thinking skills and empathy towards other people. Gives me hope!