Can my employer ban me from the office?

[Anothercovidthread]

NC.
I have recently started a new job. It is a non customer facing office job, based in Scotland. The company is very large. I have been working from home since I began the job due to covid restrictions. Today, we were told that we will return to the office towards the end of the month and going forwards we will do 3 days in, and 2 days from home. However, to enter the office, you must show proof of having had 2 covid vaccines. My employer will not store details of who has been vaccinated, you just need to show the info to enter. If you have not had the vaccine you are not allowed in the office unless special circumstances and permissions are agreed directly with HR.

I'm still in probation so very concerned about kicking up a fuss but I think this is very wrong.

1. Why should I have to share medical information with reception staff on a daily basis for the foreseeable?
2. Can the company legally ban people from the office for not having a non mandatory vaccine?
3. Assuming that if you have some kind of non vax agreement with HR, you are provided with some other documentation allowing entry to the office, is the company allowed to insist that its shown on a daily basis to whoever is on reception?

AIBU, the employer is just taking steps to keep people safe?

@MrsHastingslikethebattle

"Just get vaccinated then.."

Why should she?

I'm double jabbed, no anti vaxxer but why should people be forced into having something injected in their body by employers?

Vaccinated people can still have and transmit Covid. Its shocking that people are getting backed into a corner like this.

Why shouldn’t an employer take steps to keep its employees safe? Less transmission if you are vaccinated so better for employers who don’t want their business affected by staff being off work ill.

[quote Anothercovidthread]@lljkk yes, this is exactly my issue. I feel so anxious about the whole thing.

It isn't about having the vaccine, I have to carry the data on my phone or on paper, in my bag and show it to lots of people. The thought of this is terrifying me. This is data that to me is very private.

I have never been to the countries you need to show a yellow fever jab for. I don't go to big football games or places where this is now the norm. To me this is a huge change to my life and what I have considered normal, I feel scared.[/quote]
Do you never get asked for ID for age restrictions - cigarettes, alcohol, paracetamol, lottery etc? That's exactly the same deal, you have to carry the data around.

I'm not in the UK. Where I live with vaccine passports (or test or antibodies) at every restaurant, cinema, etc. However, it's illegal for an employer to ask a member of staff for their vaccine status or any other medical information.
I think there may be a grey area if your employer does not own or rent the whole building and in some cases, the management of the building itself could ask for it. Ours does for large meetings, but not for staff.

(The employer isn’t forcing her to have a vaccine; it’s protecting vulnerable employees - eg we have cancer patients at various stages of treatment / other immune deficiencies- their right to be be protected trumps your feelings over having to show a pass to the receptionist.)

"Do you never get asked for ID for age restrictions - cigarettes, alcohol, paracetamol, lottery etc?"

Lol. I stopped looking under 25 a long time ago and if someone asked me for ID for that I'd laugh my head off.

There’s not much point in engaging with you on this because you have a plaster for every sore.

Your employer has a policy which you find ‘terrifying’ and you are very reluctant to comply, to the point of absolute refusal. Is it because you have told them that you are vaccinated when you are not? I think it would be a better use of your time to discuss this with your employer rather than here.

In answer to your opening question ‘Can my employer ban me from the office’ the simple answer is Yes.

@Gwenhwyfar

"Do you never get asked for ID for age restrictions - cigarettes, alcohol, paracetamol, lottery etc?"

Lol. I stopped looking under 25 a long time ago and if someone asked me for ID for that I'd laugh my head off.

So when you were under 25 did you never buy anything age restricted and have to deal with having ID?

@Anothercovidthread

Thank you *@numbertheory and @blancheb* , I don't no why but the thought of sharing what I consider private information, is causing me to become quite anxious. I appreciate your comments.

I would not consider my vaccine status private information. The vaccine is to protect individuals and to reduce the impact of the pandemic on society as a whole, it’s a public health issue, not a secret between you and your doctor. I don’t understand your problem

@Anothercovidthread

I don't have a driving license, I have a passport although, I couldn't tell you the last time I went abroad.

Perhaps if I went abroad more often it would be more normal to me.

I don't no why I'm so frightened. I wish I did. I don't no how to describe it, I don't like spiders either, I cant really say why, I just don't. It kind of feels like that. The thought of showing the info to someone makes me feel very anxious and even now, I could cry. I don't no how to feel the way that most of you do and to think this is all OK. Believe me, I wish I did. I am sitting here now thinking about it and I feel my heart racing. To me it is just very private. I don't no how else to explain.

Then don't do it.

It's your choice.

@UltimateBugKilla

Its hardly medical information, its 2 dates and what jab you had.

People are losing their jobs for not being vaccinated, so showing a pass to enter an office doesn't seem like a big deal to me.

Mine has my date of birth too. I suppose the Covid pass system where I live, but am not too happy about all those waiters having my name and dob together.

@Anothercovidthread

I don't have a driving license, I have a passport although, I couldn't tell you the last time I went abroad.

Perhaps if I went abroad more often it would be more normal to me.

I don't no why I'm so frightened. I wish I did. I don't no how to describe it, I don't like spiders either, I cant really say why, I just don't. It kind of feels like that. The thought of showing the info to someone makes me feel very anxious and even now, I could cry. I don't no how to feel the way that most of you do and to think this is all OK. Believe me, I wish I did. I am sitting here now thinking about it and I feel my heart racing. To me it is just very private. I don't no how else to explain.

Will it help you to know that if you do decide to go with a vaccine passport, you'll be joining many millions around the globe doing the same thing? Billions even now? So you wouldn't be unusual.

@robinsreliant thank you. I think I do need to speak to someone. I have never felt fear like this in my life. I can see myself becoming a hermit and this is not me. I like people and working in teams and I try my best at work to do a good job and work for better positions when I can. I have never been in trouble at any job iv ever had, I am not someone constantly challenging the normal flow. I can see pp talking about cctv and other means that people are tracked. I think the difference is that these things you hear they are there but they are removed from you. I cant see the database or whatever. With this, I am having to carry details of myself and it provide it to multiple people. I cant explain what I am worried about though, I just feel deep inside me that I don't feel comfortable and its a horrible feeling.

Namechangedforthethousandthtim
This is really bad, as there has been significant research to show that a large number of those who got serious and life changing vaccine side effects already had natural immunity from covid when they were vaccinated. Forcing people to get vaccinated when they already have significant antibodies from having covid, is not only stupid but actually extremely dangerous. I can understand people being nervous but this is ridiculous.
Source: She got it from a friend on Facebook who knows someone who has an aunt who read it in the 'Sunday Sport'.

Namechangedforthethousandthtim
This is really bad, as there has been significant research to show that a large number of those who got serious and life changing vaccine side effects already had natural immunity from covid when they were vaccinated. Forcing people to get vaccinated when they already have significant antibodies from having covid, is not only stupid but actually extremely dangerous. I can understand people being nervous but this is ridiculous.

Wow, that's amazing because I'm from a medical family and my sister is head of information working on covid for a national NHS body and she has no idea what you are talking about.

Come on, Jennyforeigner how can opinions from experts possibly compete with those of random nutcases on Facebook?

Agree, the answer is yes they can in the interests of wellbeing of colleagues and reducing risk of disruption to the business. If you are still on probation with under two years' service you may find yourself out of work again unless you are willing to compromise.

"I know that my colleague at work has been vaccinated. I cannot think of a single way I can use that information to my advantage."

I know some colleagues of mine who have not been vaccinated and my opinion of them has really gone downhill. These are people who are open about it. I can imagine someone wanting to keep it secret because they don't want their colleagues to look down on them.

If it is just a big fear of the vaccine passport then I presume you are fully vaccinated but just don't carry this info around with you?

Where I live you need vaccine passports to do some everyday things, nothing but a cursory glance at them is done. You are one of many people they see every day, they don't care, they don't remember you, it is really is no big deal. Anti-vaxxers like to big these things up to frighten people, they use any means possible to frighten people and instil doubt, making a big deal of vaccine passports, calling it 'your medical history' is just another way of doing that.

@Anothercovidthread

I don't have a driving license, I have a passport although, I couldn't tell you the last time I went abroad.

Perhaps if I went abroad more often it would be more normal to me.

I don't no why I'm so frightened. I wish I did. I don't no how to describe it, I don't like spiders either, I cant really say why, I just don't. It kind of feels like that. The thought of showing the info to someone makes me feel very anxious and even now, I could cry. I don't no how to feel the way that most of you do and to think this is all OK. Believe me, I wish I did. I am sitting here now thinking about it and I feel my heart racing. To me it is just very private. I don't no how else to explain.

@Anothercovidthread - as with the travelling abroad more often idea, I suspect you will find that going into the office and showing your vaccine confirmation info a few times will cure you.

*Namechangedforthethousandthtim
This is really bad, as there has been significant research to show that a large number of those who got serious and life changing vaccine side effects already had natural immunity from covid when they were vaccinated. Forcing people to get vaccinated when they already have significant antibodies from having covid, is not only stupid but actually extremely dangerous. I can understand people being nervous but this is ridiculous.

Asda have tin foil on sale this week. 'Significant research' = some people on the internet.

@Namechangedforthethousandthtim it gives citations for its sources or it gets the hose..

You're not giving over your medical records. Your showing a cert that says you're vaccinated.

I'm in Ireland and you can't even sit in Mc donald's without showing your covid cert. We use them when entering all eating and drinking establishments. Hotels are the same, concerts/bands, we have to show our covid cert. Some places also require Id to ensure you are not using someone else's cert.

Our certs have our name, date of birth and a unique code, there's a QR code that can be scanned so your info is stored there with your name and that you have received 2 vaccines. There's no other medical info on it for anyone to see.

My dh had to show his in work but they only had to do this once, not every day. His job he's dealing with alot of the public face to face so his employers are just keeping everyone safe. Which I think is great because if I were a customer going into his place of work, I'd feel better knowing he was vaccinated. There are anti vaxers so they are put on jobs where they're not dealing with the public or in large groups.

It's no big deal tbh. It's just a few words saying your vaccinated. You'll need it for travel etc, when you go into other countries they are requiring this information.

I don’t think covid vaccine status is that personal. It’s not exactly level with say, demanding the results of your latest smear test or your HIV status.

I would presume this is the future tbh and I don’t think that’s a bad thing. On one hand, they’re attempting to protect their employees including some who may be more susceptible to things like covid due to underlying health issues. On the other hand, cynically, they have a business to run and presumably don’t want a load of their staff off at any one time unable to work due to being ill. I can understand that.

[quote Anothercovidthread]@lljkk yes, this is exactly my issue. I feel so anxious about the whole thing.

It isn't about having the vaccine, I have to carry the data on my phone or on paper, in my bag and show it to lots of people. The thought of this is terrifying me. This is data that to me is very private.

I have never been to the countries you need to show a yellow fever jab for. I don't go to big football games or places where this is now the norm. To me this is a huge change to my life and what I have considered normal, I feel scared.[/quote]

If you don't want to have the convenience of using the NHS App to show an electronic version of the Covid Pass that is your prerogative.

But please explain exactly why showing a small piece of card (your vaccine card you were given when you had the jab) with the date and batch number of your vaccination is 'terrifying'.

What do you think is going to happen as a result of someone seeing two dates and two batch numbers??

[quote Anothercovidthread]@robinsreliant thank you. I think I do need to speak to someone. I have never felt fear like this in my life. I can see myself becoming a hermit and this is not me. I like people and working in teams and I try my best at work to do a good job and work for better positions when I can. I have never been in trouble at any job iv ever had, I am not someone constantly challenging the normal flow. I can see pp talking about cctv and other means that people are tracked. I think the difference is that these things you hear they are there but they are removed from you. I cant see the database or whatever. With this, I am having to carry details of myself and it provide it to multiple people. I cant explain what I am worried about though, I just feel deep inside me that I don't feel comfortable and its a horrible feeling.[/quote]

I understand this. But please try and block out the confusing noise from social media. By its very nature, a pandemic affects all countries - and most countries are bringing in mitigations such as vaccine passports and mandatory vaccinations for work. Also, even though they could before Covid, it's doubtful the Government (that's who you're talking about, right?) would be so interested in you to track you. (Sorry!)

Most employment agreements (of a reasonably senior level) allow the employer to send you to see a doctor of their choice whose report will be shared with them- so that if you’re off sick they can essentially check whether you’re blagging / fit to work / what reasonable adjustments need to be made for you in the workplace. Suggest that you aim never to get sick for more than a week.