Can my employer ban me from the office?

[Anothercovidthread]

NC.
I have recently started a new job. It is a non customer facing office job, based in Scotland. The company is very large. I have been working from home since I began the job due to covid restrictions. Today, we were told that we will return to the office towards the end of the month and going forwards we will do 3 days in, and 2 days from home. However, to enter the office, you must show proof of having had 2 covid vaccines. My employer will not store details of who has been vaccinated, you just need to show the info to enter. If you have not had the vaccine you are not allowed in the office unless special circumstances and permissions are agreed directly with HR.

I'm still in probation so very concerned about kicking up a fuss but I think this is very wrong.

1. Why should I have to share medical information with reception staff on a daily basis for the foreseeable?
2. Can the company legally ban people from the office for not having a non mandatory vaccine?
3. Assuming that if you have some kind of non vax agreement with HR, you are provided with some other documentation allowing entry to the office, is the company allowed to insist that its shown on a daily basis to whoever is on reception?

AIBU, the employer is just taking steps to keep people safe?

@Namechangedforthethousandthtim

This is really bad, as there has been significant research to show that a large number of those who got serious and life changing vaccine side effects already had natural immunity from covid when they were vaccinated. Forcing people to get vaccinated when they already have significant antibodies from having covid, is not only stupid but actually extremely dangerous. I can understand people being nervous but this is ridiculous.

have you got a link to the research on this or are you spouting bullshit?

Just to add. I can tell from reading these comments that most people don’t take potential side effects seriously.
I’m happy for you if you haven’t been adversely affected but to deny the fact that some people’s lives have been changed irreparably is just wrong.
I am double vaccinated so no anti-vac protester but the reality is, some people have had terrible side effects.

Why do you not feel comfortable sharing it? I can only assume you are not vaccinated and therefore feel unhappy about being singled out or being asked to work from home?

My organisation doesn't do this but I really wish they did. Why should everyone else be put at higher risk? If they are allowing for specifically exemptions (which you said they are) or allowing you to continue to wfh then what's the issue. Have the vaccine or keep to yourself - simple!

It’s called Public Health for a reason. I don’t understand why it’s beyond the comprehension of so many that during a pandemic we should all get vaccinated to mitigate the danger to ourselves and others. We live in a society and we have responsibilities as citizens.

Unless someone is recording the info when the pass is presented (or isn't), then it's not processing

I can't be arsed getting into a data protection debate on the weekend when I'm not getting paid, but under GDPR it can easily be interpreted as processing. Whilst they aren't storing the information, they are using it and there's an outcome for the data subject. The ICO decision has been widely condemned by the data protection community for this stance.

In the US, who rave on about their freedom, organisations are terminating employment of health care workers, airline staff and teachers if they aren’t vaccinated.

We do have a lot of constitutional rights, which we are very grateful for and proud of, but none are absolute. They are restricted when their exercise curtails the rights of others. Your right to swing your fist stops at the other person's nose. The Supreme Court has ruled twice that vaccine mandates are constitutionally valid.

The company is (rightfully) thinking about the safety and protection of its workforce.

It's not fair that others should be exposed to this in the workplace if some are refusing to be vaccinated.

I think companies are being lenient giving employees the option to wfh while others (vaccinated) have to go in. I don't think that is very fair either.

Why should you get special treatment?

@Kinneddar

You're not being asked to show or share medical info. This is a screenshot of the NHS Scotland vaccine page.

Having a screenshot of that on your phone isn't going to be more inconvenient to show than a security pass

If you've been vaccinated you're making this a problem when it really isn't

To be fair, the vaccine passport IS sharing medical information. (However I would have no problem with that personally)

I’m still suffering from side effects of the vaccine. It does happen.
Of course it can though I'd bet my life there's far more suffering the effects of long covid pre-vaccine.
My Dbro needs a nap at lunch on his break he is wore out with breathing problems he was a fit non smoker, aged 48, physical job.
My Aunt is on clotting medication for long covid clots in her lungs, MIL is losing clumps of her hair and is exhausted, my DM died at 69 all pre-vaccine as a result of covid.

@SunShinesBrightly

Just to add. I can tell from reading these comments that most people don’t take potential side effects seriously. I’m happy for you if you haven’t been adversely affected but to deny the fact that some people’s lives have been changed irreparably is just wrong. I am double vaccinated so no anti-vac protester but the reality is, some people have had terrible side effects.

Perhaps you can quote the sources and statistics you're using so the numbers and the risk-benefit can be assessed?

EmeraldShamrock
If a person has suffered life changing effects from long Covid OR the from the vaccine they deserve sympathy in equal measure.
Neither situation top trumps the other.

For those latching onto my point about it not being catastrophic if the whole team became infected. If you had read the thread, i was responding to someone whose DH performed a critical role within his work and the whole team being off would apparently cause headline news and a big problem. I was replying that if my whole team was off work, this would not be the case. Our work can be put on hold, it is not time critical. I don't no if my other team members have received the vaccine or not, there is also a blanket policy that we are not allowed to discuss our status with each other.

@birdybirdytweettweet there were questions asked about guarantees for unvaccinated staff not being in line for dismissal, whether the rule was going to become long term and unvaccinated people essentially being banned long term and whether or not, if the company decides staff would be in line for dismissal or other actions, they would accept financial liability should anything go wrong since they would be effectively forcing people to become vaccinated.

No one seemed to raise any concerns about the need to show the data every day, or, the method of showing. We all do have photographic ID's to enter the building but they are securely scanned. You do not show your pass to anyone, ever.

When I took my job, my contract was conditional on the basis of reference checks. I was made well aware of this. I was able to make an informed choice that I was happy to provide this data. I am obviously in the minority it seems but I am surprised that there is no requirement to state that showing proof of vaccine is a condition too. The vaccine is non mandatory, the vast majority of similar companies in the area are not requesting the data. I don't understand why this does not have to be a contractual condition.

What a brilliant company. I would love to work for someone who takes PUBLIC health so seriously.

Also it’s a good way to weed out those who work well in a team and those who don’t, those who read facts and those who don’t and finally it weeds out people with common sense and those who don’t.

And I’m guessing those “who don’t” will be less favoured in the future.

Op are you unvaccinated is that it?

I'm totally bemused that so many people see vaccine passports as "sharing my private medical history, it's so intrusive!", like they've been specifically singled out.
You and the rest of humanity, you fecking loons!

@Unhomme

Get vaccinated then...

Why should anyone be forced to have the vaccine? It doesn't stop spread or make you immune.

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus
I’m not sure what your point is.
Are you saying that the statistics prove that the vaccine is harmful only to a small percentage and that those who are affected don’t matter?
I’m glad that neither you or your family has suffered.

Why should anyone be forced to have the vaccine? It doesn't stop spread or make you immune

That old trope. No one is being forced to be vaccinated, how come some people can’t grasp that.

@Bluntness100

Why should anyone be forced to have the vaccine? It doesn't stop spread or make you immune

That old trope. No one is being forced to be vaccinated, how come some people can’t grasp that.

From this thread it appears that way

"Just get the vaccine"

Oh ok ... thanks

You'd be showing Vaccine pass not your full medical history.

It's 100% your choice to have a vaccine or not but just accept the consequences of what come with that .

If person has suffered life changing effects from long Covid OR the from the vaccine they deserve sympathy in equal measure.
Neither situation top trumps the other.
I was not playing top trumps at all. I have sympathy for everyone who suffered from Covid, it isn't a game.
I meant there are risks taking it and not taking it.
The people I know who haven't are afraid of the side effects, my point was the side effects from Covid while unvaccinated aren't good either.

@Bluntness100

Why should anyone be forced to have the vaccine? It doesn't stop spread or make you immune

That old trope. No one is being forced to be vaccinated, how come some people can’t grasp that.

I guess those who are having job contracts terminated might disagree.

For heavens sake ! They are asking if you have been vacinated not wanting your sexual history!

Emerald: I meant there are risks taking it and not taking it.
The people I know who haven't are afraid of the side effects, my point was the side effects from Covid while unvaccinated aren't good either.

I agree. I am fully vaccinated but I have seen a previously healthy close family member suffer terribly since having the AZ vaccine so that’s where I’m coming from.

@SunShinesBrightly Oh that is awful.
I hope your family member recovers soon.