Can my employer ban me from the office?

[Anothercovidthread]

NC.
I have recently started a new job. It is a non customer facing office job, based in Scotland. The company is very large. I have been working from home since I began the job due to covid restrictions. Today, we were told that we will return to the office towards the end of the month and going forwards we will do 3 days in, and 2 days from home. However, to enter the office, you must show proof of having had 2 covid vaccines. My employer will not store details of who has been vaccinated, you just need to show the info to enter. If you have not had the vaccine you are not allowed in the office unless special circumstances and permissions are agreed directly with HR.

I'm still in probation so very concerned about kicking up a fuss but I think this is very wrong.

1. Why should I have to share medical information with reception staff on a daily basis for the foreseeable?
2. Can the company legally ban people from the office for not having a non mandatory vaccine?
3. Assuming that if you have some kind of non vax agreement with HR, you are provided with some other documentation allowing entry to the office, is the company allowed to insist that its shown on a daily basis to whoever is on reception?

AIBU, the employer is just taking steps to keep people safe?

@DollyDinkle

Oh and bring on your probationary period does not trump employment law FACT, so u you cannot and won't be sacked.

What employment law do you think is relevant here? You can be sacked for any reason during the first 2 years of employment. They can certainly get rid of you in the probation period. Very helpful of you to supply all this completely wrong advice to the op. If you can't get this right I assume that everything else is suspect too.

Of course your vaccine is other people’s business! It directly affects their chances of catching a life-threatening illness from you, when sitting next to you all day every day in an office.

@Anothercovidthread

Sorry if I missed it but are you vaccinated? Couldn't see it anywhere.

Is the issue that you are not or that you don't want you medical details shared?

Even if the company is only trying to minimise sick leave it seems perfectly reasonable to me.

@Namechangedforthethousandthtim

This is really bad, as there has been significant research to show that a large number of those who got serious and life changing vaccine side effects already had natural immunity from covid when they were vaccinated. Forcing people to get vaccinated when they already have significant antibodies from having covid, is not only stupid but actually extremely dangerous. I can understand people being nervous but this is ridiculous.

Complete rubbish.

If I have already had COVID-19 and recovered, do I still need to get vaccinated?

Yes, you should be vaccinated regardless of whether you already had COVID-19 because:

Research has not yet shown how long you are protected from getting COVID-19 again after you recover from COVID-19.
Vaccination helps protect you even if you’ve already had COVID-19.
Evidence is emerging that people get better protection by being fully vaccinated compared with having had COVID-19. One study showed that unvaccinated people who already had COVID-19 are more than 2 times as likely than fully vaccinated people to get COVID-19 again.

If you were treated for COVID-19 with monoclonal antibodies or convalescent plasma, you should wait 90 days before getting a COVID-19 vaccine. Talk to your doctor if you are unsure what treatments you received or if you have more questions about getting a COVID-19 vaccine.

If you or your child has a history of multisystem inflammatory syndrome in adults or children (MIS-A or MIS-C), consider delaying vaccination until you or your child have recovered from being sick and for 90 days after the date of diagnosis of MIS-A or MIS-C. Learn more about the clinical considerations for people with a history of multisystem MIS-C or MIS-A.

@MaxNormal

I'm quite shocked at the majority of the replied, although it is AIBU so I suppose people will mostly want to be contrary and stick the boot in. Possibly a lot of Australians posting where this stuff is normalised now?

I know the term "slippery slope" is being overused a lot but that is exactly what this is. Denying people employment on the basis of a medical intervention is a pretty big departure from what we were as a society in 2019, and having to show proof of said medical employment to gain access to services likewise.

If it becomes a permanent feature, I very much doubt it will stop at covid and at some point all the people pouring scorn on the OP will come up against something that they don't like or that effects them personally.

I used to read and watch quite a lot of dystopian sci-fi and this gives me a very uncomfortable feeling.

Also everyone saying "just take the vaccine". No medication is entirely risk free. And where there is risk there needs to be choice. And "choosing" to lose your job is not choice, it's coercion, which is inappropriate in a medical setting.

These principles matter, deeply, and it's upsetting to see how lightly they are being tossed aside.

Well said

Get over yourself. Everything is not all about you!

You know nothing about the medical conditions of the people next to you in the office. In our office we have several people who are immunocompromised and we have several people with close family who are vulnerable.

We all chose to get vaccinated, and we all chose to share that info (verbally) with our co-workers.

Why would you not?

[quote Anothercovidthread]@burnto I really don't feel comfortable sharing the information. If it was a one off and the details could be added to my pass then I could maybe understand but to have to show the information 3 times a week to different people, I just don't see that its anyones business. If the vaccine was mandatory then fair enough but its not. In Scotland, care staff do not have to have it either, thats only England as far as I'm aware.[/quote]
The problem is, OP, as you will be well aware, the Scottish Government are very keen on the "vaccine passport" idea. You will need to prove you are vaccinated to go to the theatre, a football match or a nightclub. No double vaccine, no entry.

I totally get where you are coming from with your concern about sharing info and all the other issues, but Queen Nicola gives not one shiny shit and your employer is taking their lead from her.

[quote Anothercovidthread]@emeraldshamrock I'm not sure what fast food restaurant requires the information? In Scotland only nightclubs or very large indoor events require vaccine proof. You are able to attend the theatre without proof. How can you possibly not require proof for the theatre where you are crammed in like a sardine, yet require for an office which is also adhering to social distancing and mask wearing.

I don't know why some pp are being rude. Perhaps I am old fashioned but I find it very strange that so many are so open with their medical records. Any time I place an order online, I tick the box that I don't want my email address shared with 3rd parties. In reality, most of my inbox is junk mail and it would make little difference if I received some more, but I simply don't want my email address shared so I tick the box. If I'm not willing to share my email address with a database, why on earth would I want to share details of medical procedures to an actual person?! It just doesn't make sense to me however, it seems I am in the minority so I will give it some more thought.[/quote]
I do not consider showing proof of my vaccine status intrusive, any more than someone seeing my BCG scar.

Asking about other aspects of my medical history yes.

If it becomes a permanent feature, I very much doubt it will stop at covid and at some point all the people pouring scorn on the OP will come up against something that they don't like or that effects them personally.
I suspect the MMR starting school will be next and tbh it wouldn't be a bad thing if it was.
Personally I was lucky when I had the vaccine with no side effects but it was scary, as scary as when I went against scary advice to avoid the MMR for my babies.
I stayed awake all night watching them for a bad reaction.
I weighed up the risks and decided it was worth it to avoid death or disability from measles.
It is your choice but it does effect others.

It's a vaccine that the vast majority of the population have had (Haven't they?) Hardly "personal information" really.

Sometimes it is reasonable to expect information from people - eg if someone has HIV before you have unprotected sex.

I don’t see asking for your vaccine status relating to a communicable disease passed on simply by being near other people during a pandemic of that disease as an unreasonable request. Asking if you have chlamydia before you’re allowed in would be another matter.

In Ireland you are not allowed in restaurants/bars/fast food without ID and a vaccine cert.
McDonald's is very strict.

The concept that your information is private is false. You presumably have no problem sharing your bank details and address with your employer so you can get paid?

I realise you will now say that it's the sharing with reception that is the issue? You share your date of birth and name with medical receptionists, when you drive your number plate is picked up by automatic cameras that can be accessed by humans that you have never met that is linked to your address, you confirm your address at the Pharmacy to get medication? When you go to school as a child you confirm whether you have had your childhood vaccinations.

It's a silly fallacy to be precious about this sort of thing. This is no more intrusive than the people who process your detailed information for passport renewal.

It's a flash of a date and a confirmation that you have received the vaccination. This is registered on a wide database that will be accessed by people in all sorts of admin roles that you have no idea about because they are recording data and numbers and stats.

This isn't about sharing information because you do that all the time without realising it, if you are vaccinated then you have no right to be precious about this.

If you aren't....well that's something you need to take up with your own conscience but it's got nothing to do with sharing information.

My contract does not state that I need to have a Covid vaccine in order to work for my employer. I work in a unionised industry where there is resistance to any change in contractual terms.

If they were to make vaccination mandatory for being in the office, I would simply expect to be allowed to work from home (as I did during lockdowns).

The U.K. has minimal requests for proof of vaccination. In France as an example you need a pass Sanitaire if you are over 12 years old to enter public spaces such as restaurants, trains, museums, cinemas, planes, EuroDisney. Without it you need to provide negative test results taken 72 hours before entering each place. In the US, who rave on about their freedom, organisations are terminating employment of health care workers, airline staff and teachers if they aren’t vaccinated.

Are you NOT vaccinated? Is that your issue?
We have Covid passes on our phones now, that’s all you need to show reception staff and there will be more and more of this as we try to open up everything.
My employer wanted a full medical before I started, they have a scan of my passport, they know my personal circumstances, they have my national insurance number etc
There’s just some j do you have to share for them to hire you, a s pay you.

Once we go back to what the new normal is, no jab, no job unless medically excempt may probably apply

It’s not just about the individual but the wider community

The fun bit comes when you want to go abroad for a holiday.

My guess is that if you can’t prove you have had the jab, you won’t be allowed entry into that country assuming you are let on the aircraft to fly there in the first place.

I fully agree that people have a choice to get jabbed or not jabbed. They made a choice but then can’t complain when they can’t fly away to sunnier climes

Its a weird policy because being vaccinated doesn't stop you spreading covid.

That screen shot does also contain personal information - all reception needs to know is that you are approved for entry, not your name, number, dates of vaccine, type of vaccine etc from your medical records.

My organisation found it more effective and requiring less data to ask for a clear lateral flow test, registered before going into the office (using the QR code I think) for our own offices. This doesn't reflect any historic medical records and is more likely to stop people taking covid into the office.

Even so since the decision to let covid rip through schools, parents and families have gone down like flies at significant cost to businesses. Not hospitalised as they were mostly vaccinated but off work due to isolation and then illness.

Yawn.

@Mummyoflittledragon

I’m still suffering from side effects of the vaccine. It does happen.

It does. A close family member was hospitalised after having the AZ. She is now registered as disabled. The hospital took it very seriously thankfully.

What do you think the receptionists are going to do with the ‘information’ on your Covid passport?

All they will look at is if you have had the vaccine. They probably won’t even look at your name and most likely won’t even remember you 5 minutes later as they move on to the next person to be checked!

I know that my colleague at work has been vaccinated. I cannot think of a single way I can use that information to my advantage.

If one of your colleagues had TB and your employer allowed them to come into work so it was spread around and several people died I think you would
Be fuming. Your eomployer has a duty of care and so has to have health and safety measures in place and reduce all hazards and dangers to health. Covid IS a danger to health so I think they are right to put measures in place to stop the spread of covid and one of those is to ensure people in the office are vaccinated. If they were the opposite and had forced people to needlessly to come into the office throughout the pandemic you would also be moaning about that!

If you don't want to comply with your employers rules then resign and get a new job. I am sure the other people on your team who you feel wouldn't be badly affected will be thankful if you do. That was a terrible comment to make. You do not know how Covid would affect any of them and your attitude that it would not be catastrophic just shows that you have no regard for a single person that you work with. You are unable to look at the bigger picture.

It doesn't matter whether it is showing a vaccine pass, wearing a certain uniform or only taking breaks when your employer allows. The fact is that you do not want to comply with something that your employer insists on so go and get a different job. It really is not rocket science.
You are just being difficult for the sake of it.

It’s not a weird policy, as the higher the proportion of vaccinated people, the lower the incidence of disease and serious illness for everyone, and it’s actually less intrusive than insisting on regular lfd tests (also, unless you watch someone doing an lfd test, you have no idea whether or not they actually did one, as all they need is to scan the code on the test to report a pretend result).