To think infertility and deciding not to have kids are both painful in their own ways?

[stereeotype]

Trying to have kids and it's proving so far not to be successful. Me and DH discussed last night the reality is - if it doesn't happen maybe it's not such a bad thing we both concluded.

We see a lot of parent regret it or have kids that perhaps didn't turn out what they expected for variety of reasons (move to other countries, become tearaways etc etc) so we are not going to stress ourselves out about it.

Trouble is, I feel like not having them - either through decision or indecision is a painful experience. We are not planning on moving to another city and the place we live isa small place the kinda place where 99 percent of people have kids and not having them means, well - you're the odd one out. No other way to describe it. I'm female too so have no friends without kids.

The societal pressure is too much. It's really getting to me.

It's just becoming quite painful. I think about it a lot, and I just think it's so hard not having kids. Really, really hard. Even when you've decided not to have them - it's like a life confined to making yourself the outsider.

How do I deal with this?

I think if you find you can’t, it’s not really a decision not to, as much as coming to terms with the fact you won’t have them.

For anyone who doesn’t want kids, that’s a perfectly valid choice, I don’t see why that would be painful, if that’s what that person has chosen of their own mind?

I think you’re talking about part of the process of infertility - reconciling that you might remain childless and trying to look on the bright side. I think that’s a very different thing to deciding not to have kids because you don’t want them.

I know exactly what you mean. Society is built around families. It does get easier as you get older. Your relatives and friends stop having children, they grow up and leave home.

I wish you the the best of luck and peace.

Same. We can't have children. Been refused adoption. That's the end of the road for us.

I'm grieving and not currently handling it well. I have months of being ok with it, then months of being a sobbing angry mess.

I'm being assessed for therapy again next week.

I am surprised that 99% of the people you know have DC, I find that statistic very high and I am sure it doesn't reflect society. In my circle lots of people don't have DC.

I understand what you’re saying OP.

For women in particular, no matter what else we do, and whether or not it’s a positive choice, society still judges us on whether or not we have kids, and pities us or finds us lacking if we dont.

It makes my blood boil. Look at Theresa May, who was Prime fucking Minister and was judged lacking for not having had children and forced to publicly discuss why not.

I have a highly successful (think global award winning) friend who is now pursuing Ivf with donor eggs in her mid forties. Honestly as someone who knows her well I doubt parenthood is really right for her. But I think she feels the pressure and judgement too much not to pursue it.

It’s societal misogyny. It comes as much from women as men. And we all need to reflect on what we do and say more to change it, ans see more than one life path leads to happiness and fulfilment.

When I say a decision it's because being honest I have never been dying to have kids - there's always been a gut reluctance. I see many of the negativities and few of the positives. But I'd rather the decision be taken away from me as it's too much of a big one to go against society. Surely im not alone I think many people go into because they feel like they 'should'.

It's easy to say, just don't have them, but to make that decision is hard which I guess you wouldn't understand unless you've had to make it,

I'm not articulating myself very well but I hope someone can relate and make sense of what I'm trying to say!

If you feel excluded due to not having children, is it worth moving? Among my friends and colleagues, about half have children, which possibly says more about me than anything else! Some may have children in the future, but the majority are too old. We do have children, but I'm aware that excludes me from some activities (the children were a choice, I'm not begrudging that). Or could you find some other friends?

Move somewhere you'd be happy to live without kids.
It might happen one day, but one child is a lot easier than a lot of children and if you do have more than one you can always move.
I've had a lot of friends whose life didn't include children at the time they wanted. Two moved conceived (after dog), two IVF'd eventually and two didn't.
I also have friends who have children, but are not happy with their husbands.........
You sound like a nice, rounded person.

It is always sad when the decision isn't your first choice.
I know some great couples who couldn't or decided not to have DC, they've a great life.

I'm sorry you're having such a rough time.

I agree, there's a particular pain that comes from making a decision. In a funny way, it is more socially acceptable to say 'oh yes we're still trying' or 'yes, we'd love them' than it is to say 'no, we decided we actually won't have children'.

I haven't made a decision yet on a vaguely similar issue (I have a beloved non-bio DD and infertility issues, so my decision is about whether we have another child and I do know that's not the same). And I know part of what makes it hard to make the decision is all the people who would guilt me for it, in a well-meaning way. All that 'oh, but I bet you would have got pregnant if you'd got healthier/cut out the stress/eaten pineapple core'. Or all that 'oh but it isn't too late, my friend had one at 48, just imagine ...'. There's something about having fixed a decision that makes people want to persuade you out of it, and that can be really painful!

I know what you mean - I've come to the conclusion I don't want children in recent years, and am taking steps to ensure that and also are setting up our lives in a way that would make having kids much more difficult, basically locking that decision in.

I can't imagine it's remotely comparable in scale to being infertile, but there are moments of sadness in it too - I don't think I would be a good mother, or enjoy it. That's why I'm not having kids. But there are times when I wonder what our children would have been like, whether we'll regret it when we're older, whether had my life been different or my neurodiversity not existed whether I'd have been someone who could have really enjoyed parenting. I feel sad, briefly, that I will never know what DH would be like as a dad. I feel sad briefly that I think I may like being a parent to an older teen or adult, and won't have that.

I don't regret my decision, I still 100% believe I would resent parenting; know that it doesn't suit my life or what I want from it; can't imagine anything worse for me personally than having a newborn or a 3 year old or an 8 year old; know that I don't want to foster or adopt older children; know DH and I will have a happy, fulfilling life without children. But it doesn't mean it wasn't an emotionally heavy decision to make at times, or that it doesn't come with its own sadnesses.

The difference comes in that I have a choice (afaik). So it can be sad, but I'm only sad about a decision I'm making, and one I would be theoretically open to unmake until the menopause or I get my tubes tied - infertility removes that choice, so I imagine the pain (and anger) is enormous.

@RedCarsGoFaster is embryo adoption an option you have looked into. I apologise for suggesting it if you aren’t able to carry a pregnancy. It’s just not everyone has heard of it.

I feel for you but I can’t really offer any words of wisdom. We eventually had a child after 10 years of fertility treatment. We couldn’t have a second.

The thing I find most difficult is a lack of acknowledgment that some people can’t easily fall pregnant. And Society does make you feel inadequate if you don’t have loads of kids that you constantly moan about. I really wish that someone would ask me why I don’t have more than 1. Would you like people to ask you why you don’t have children?

There is so much pressure from society on women to have and want children. I'm not a hugely maternal person but I tried for a baby as I didn't want to be left behind. When it didn't happen I was ashamed when people asked if I had kids even though I wasn't even 100% sure that I really wanted them for the right reasons. Even after getting pregnant afrer ivf I questioned had I done the right thing. I unfortunately miscarried but I felt as though I was less than because I couldn't conceive and I think this bothered me more than not actually having children. I think you can have a happy and fulfilled life without kids, but it is made more difficult because you feel left out or left behind or constantly asked why or when you're going to have them, even by perfect strangers
I'm pregnant now after 8 years of being off birth control but I was at peace with it not happening but I still almost felt like I needed to explain my situation to every nosey bastard that asked.
I spent lots of time with my nephews, took them on outings, sleepovers, holidays. It was almost better than having my own but Ioving them like they are but without the sleepless nights. I know a lot of people aren't close with their siblings or with their neices/nephews so this wouldn't suit everyone but I always had something to talk about when the subject inevitably changed to people talking about their kids. It is hard OP. What helped me might not help someone else but you're not alone, so many women struggle with infertility but it can seem like a lonely place at times

Yes. I think you have to own being the odd one out.
I've decided not to have children but I absolutely feel the societal pressure or which you speak. It takes courage to go against the grain. Courage is a good quality. Peer pressure is not something I aspire to, nor is living my life according to society's arbitrary expectations.

Yabu for listing “tearaways” next to children moving to other countries.

I think the choice being made for you by infertility issues and deciding not to have children from the beginning/(before even trying), are very different

Yes, you will need to make peace with being an outsider, OP. I find relationships with women who have children difficult as they tend to exclude people who don't have them/or the conversation revolves only about them.

In fact they treat me as an incompetent around their children - I did point out to my SILs that if they met an untimely end, their children would be living with me - so they reassessed their view of me!

In terms of being an expat, it will also be harder to make friends, as (unless you are of empty nester age), it's all about the kids.

You can NOT compare making a decision to not have children, to be infertile.

Sometimes decisions are difficult. That's life. You are an adult, you make the decision, you deal with it.

I don't see how "society" pressurises anyone into having children?

If you're unsure about a decision you've made, okay. You can change your mind. If you're infertile, though, you physically can't change your mind, the option is removed from you. The two things can't be compared.

Sorry - I just re-read and realized thay you're having fertility issues. I misunderstood the first time amd thought you'd just decided you didn't want kids and were comparing that to infertility. Sorry - sensitive subject so I'm a bit emotional about it.

In this case, I'm sorry. This must be really difficult. While I still don't think "society" as a whole pressures people into having kids - if anything, having lived abroad I think the UK is very child unfriendly, people treat children like a burden and still have the "seen and not heard" mentality, children aren't welcome in a lot of places, children aren't seen as the gift they're considered in many other cultures, childcare is crazy expensive, etc. If anything, I think being child free in the UK is more common nowadays and considered a valid lifestyle choice not to be questioned. Definitely more so than in other places.

But if it's not your decision then that's a totally separate issue and really tough. Have yoy considered some kind of counselling to talk through your feeling?

Yeah it's really hard, all of my friends have kids, even the ones who looked like they weren't going to have now. It's very isolating, I feel like I don't fit in. I couldn't have kids because I have health problems and just wouldn't have managed, so I don't even fit with people who have not been able to due to infertility. Im hoping it will feel less painful as time passes, but currently (early 40s) everything just feels very bleak for me.

First up there is a major difference between infertility and deciding not to have kids.

I think there is sadness sometimes around the latter as well, in that it is what most people do and in the main people cite their greatest achievement as their kids. If you know it's not for you, so you can't imagine going through pregnancy, childbirth and the early years, there's no biological urge and you find children tedious more than adorable, it doesn't necessarily feel like a choice.

And you can feel a bit left out as everyone buys houses and 'disappears' and generally has their lives mapped out in a way you never will. It helps to have friends of different ages so as one disappears, others are getting a bit more free time back and it doesn't seem so obvious than if all your friends do the same thing.

But I think the stigma around childfree is lessening. It's good for the environment. It's no more or less selfish to not have kids. I think the numbers will increase because I think there are some people who are born to be parents and enjoy it a lot and others who perhaps might have been better off not doing it, and that group will find it easier not to rather than feeling that's what they should do.

@Catsstillrock

I understand what you’re saying OP.

For women in particular, no matter what else we do, and whether or not it’s a positive choice, society still judges us on whether or not we have kids, and pities us or finds us lacking if we dont.

It makes my blood boil. Look at Theresa May, who was Prime fucking Minister and was judged lacking for not having had children and forced to publicly discuss why not.

I have a highly successful (think global award winning) friend who is now pursuing Ivf with donor eggs in her mid forties. Honestly as someone who knows her well I doubt parenthood is really right for her. But I think she feels the pressure and judgement too much not to pursue it.

It’s societal misogyny. It comes as much from women as men. And we all need to reflect on what we do and say more to change it, ans see more than one life path leads to happiness and fulfilment.

Nicola Sturgeon gets this as well, public asking why she has no children and assuming she chose her career when in fact she has has MC.

I absolutely hear you and was just thinking about this earlier! I miscarried earlier this year and while I would love a family of my own, I’m not prepared to pursue it for years at any cost IYSWIM. I find TTC, especially against the backdrop of a loss, immensely tough which makes me want to just quit now and get control back of my life, but yes that would be very sad. I feel like the more of my friends start their own families in the next few years, the harder that would become, but if all my friends stayed child free I could live with it.

If there are few positives why did you want children?