To think infertility and deciding not to have kids are both painful in their own ways?

[stereeotype]

Trying to have kids and it's proving so far not to be successful. Me and DH discussed last night the reality is - if it doesn't happen maybe it's not such a bad thing we both concluded.

We see a lot of parent regret it or have kids that perhaps didn't turn out what they expected for variety of reasons (move to other countries, become tearaways etc etc) so we are not going to stress ourselves out about it.

Trouble is, I feel like not having them - either through decision or indecision is a painful experience. We are not planning on moving to another city and the place we live isa small place the kinda place where 99 percent of people have kids and not having them means, well - you're the odd one out. No other way to describe it. I'm female too so have no friends without kids.

The societal pressure is too much. It's really getting to me.

It's just becoming quite painful. I think about it a lot, and I just think it's so hard not having kids. Really, really hard. Even when you've decided not to have them - it's like a life confined to making yourself the outsider.

How do I deal with this?

'I'd never changed a nappy before'

Skills like that you can learn. Not minimising what a shock the whole experience must be! I'm talking more about people who know NOTHING about children, and have no real interest in children, or learning anything about them, but have a baby anyway thinking it will all 'come naturally' and 'its different when it's your own'. It sounds like fairytale thinking to me, and incredibly risky

Very good point about the 'dont give up' message. It takes real strength and bravery to know your limits, and to decide to put your health and sanity first and step off the rollercoaster

Thanks for so many comments, they are helpful.

I feel so sad and confused, angry, frustrated. A lot of emotions going on.

I think about parenting daily,

When I come on my period or suffer a loss I feel anger that it didn't happen but get a lot of worry and doubt when I think long and hard about being a parent.

@User134356356 such a thoughtful and truthful post. I identify with a lot in it.

I agree @User134356356 thank you for this post very insightful and you're right, I believe much of it is a front. A front because there's no other options is there, no point moaning about a situation you cannot change.

But then I do start to believe those that say it's the best thing they ever did and it's the best feeling never known love like it etc etc. What if their right? And I'm missing out on this experience that could have filled my life with?

And you're right it's annoying because you cannot trial the experience, it's a huge huge risk for everyone IMO even those who 'just knew' they wanted to be parents.

It’s such an individual thing OP. For me, a lot of parenthood is conflicting emotions; my little boy is so full on and these early years are so exhausting and draining at times but his dad has taken him away this weekend and it’s just me and the cat and I miss them. 🤷🏻‍♀️

I am another who’s decided to stop at one because I have found a lot of the experience so far a massive shock to the system - not helped by the pandemic and the lockdowns.

OP I had my children when I was young so I haven't experienced this pressure myself but I absolutely can see where you are coming from. There absolutely is a societal assumption that choosing to have children is the natural progression in life. There is also often an assumption that couples who don't have children can't - no one seems to understand that it can be a choice! I remember my friend telling me that her brother called her selfish when she said she chose to not have children - like how is that selfish?? Selfish is having children that you don't want! As a previous poster said, it is the brave choice to go against the grain and it is actually putting those theoretical children first - not yourself. Because it isn't right bringing children into the world who aren't truly wanted.

I am sorry that you are having such a tough time with this. It really is a heartbreaking decision, especially because there is that awareness that it will reach a point where it will no longer be a choice, so there is that worry that you will regret the choice down the line but it will be too late to change your mind. I really do feel for you op.

I know what you mean OP.

It isn't just a choice about whether to try to get pregnant or no, it is a choice how hard you try and how far you go. There's a spectrum in between the women who always knew they didn't want children, had no doubts and enjoy their childfree status and those women who tried everything multiple times for as long as they could before reluctantly resigning themselves to childlessness.

It is also sad to finally realise that an avenue is closed to you, especially one as loaded as parenthood. Even if you believe you have made the right choice you can have doubts or regrets or feel sadness about certain aspects.

I'm pretty sure the choice to be childfree was the right one for my husband and I, but it doesn't mean that the failure to get pregnant when we tried wasn't painful, or that we don't wonder about how things might have been.

DH and I chose not to have kids and it's not painful in the slightest! It was an active decision on our part, which we gave a lot of consideration to. No regrets at all.

Most of my friends also don't have children (and we're talking women in their 40s, so that isn't going to change), and we all have active, fulfilling lives.

I have nieces and nephews who I enjoy building relationships with, I just have no desire to be a parent.

I think there is a big difference between us and a couple who tried and couldn't have children though. They will understandably find it painful when they decide to stop trying, it's a world away from making a deliberate choice to be child free.

I can honestly say I am truly happy not to have children and I don't think deliberately making that decision is much like not being able to have them, which must be really awful and I feel for anyone for whom that is the case. That said, I'm gay, so just not having them was easier, whereas if I'd got married to a man I bet I would have had them (or tried to!) because of the social pressures on women that many PP have mentioned.

I think the pain of infertility must be horrendous and I don’t think choosing to be child free is the same level of personal emotional pain as that.

But I am childless and it has come as a surprise to me how much you are (often inadvertently) socially excluded as a result.

People also judge and dismiss those without children a lot and I think the pain of that is common to people childless by bad luck or by design.

It’s a hard decision. For me personally the decision not to have kids is easier then not being able to have them. It’s another level compared to infertility and will never match up. I’ve always wanted them and unfortunately it was taken away from me. Infertility is the worst and I’ve had enough of people asking when am I having kids etc.

In some social circles you can and do get excluded as well for not having kids etc.

I know what you mean.

I'm childless for a different reason in that I just never met the right person to have children with. I'm 44 now so it's not going to happen.

All my friends from school and uni have children now, as well as my cousins and brother.

I don't know how to feel. Sometimes I'm sad about it, other times I appreciate my freedom. A lot of my work involves older people, and I frequently get asked if I have any children. It often leaves me wondering what the point of me is.

@Spartak

I know what you mean.

I'm childless for a different reason in that I just never met the right person to have children with. I'm 44 now so it's not going to happen.

All my friends from school and uni have children now, as well as my cousins and brother.

I don't know how to feel. Sometimes I'm sad about it, other times I appreciate my freedom. A lot of my work involves older people, and I frequently get asked if I have any children. It often leaves me wondering what the point of me is.

I feel the same. My ONLY point is being a mum. I don't have a job money friends etc 😥

I definitely hear you.

I'm 46 and due to a combination of timing (meeting “later” but still having the need for time together without a child), ambivalence and other reasons, I don’t have children.

Around five years ago, I was struggling because I felt it was “now or never”, but for a combination of reasons, we did not try to have them. I am grateful for many aspects of my life, and have a sense of purpose from my faith, relationships and work, but once again can feel an outsider. I live in an outer London borough and my friends are scattered around, and my neighbours are in a range of situations, so suspect it would feel more acute if I lived in the suburbs or a village. But this year, three of my friends (who do not know each other and live in different areas) started families in their early forties, and I found this hard, as if in some sense I was “losing” them.

I’m identifying that I find the social aspect harder than not having child(ren) in itself, which I was never honestly sure about (although I love babies). Having a couple of couple friends without (as well as with) child(ren) helps, and starting monthly phone (yes, landline) catch-ups with a long-time friend (who does not live in my area and is in a different situation) is a real tonic, reminding me that we all have different situations and life experiences that inform our choices. We are all unique, in fact, and it's OK to feel how you feel.

Wishing you all the very best with whatever unfurls for you.

It sounds like you both actually are OK in yourselves with the idea of not having children, but you're worrying about societal pressure?

If that's the case I wonder if some counselling might help you to work through these feelings and why you are feeling this pressure so much.

It might be really helpful for you to talk it through with somebody neutral. If you feel strong about this in your own mind then you will be OK.

OP your comments so resonate with me. It is true that the women reassuring you that there's no need to have children unless you are 100%, don't rush it, think it over carefully are the same women who either have children or know they want children so their advice (although objectively reasonable and good and definitely coming from a good place) is just kind of pointless.

The other thing is that, there are umpteen threads on mumsnet about people not being sure whether to have children, but it feels as though those threads only attract three types of people:

a) those who never wanted kids and have no regrets, and are very happy;
b) those who weren't sure, gave in and had a kid and are very happy; or
c) those who always knew / thought they knew they wanted kids, had one and are now a bit unhappy and think they wouldn't make the same choice again.

It seems to me you never hear from the women who are genuinely undecided, decide not to try to have kids, and are still happy in hindsight with their decision. I am sure those women are out there, but you don't hear from them and it makes your own head a lonely place.

I've been on both sides of this, my first marriage was infertile, primarily due to male infertility but I also had some issues. Adoption wasn't something my ex wanted and using door sperm wasn't an option I wanted ...........so we accepted being childfree. It was very painful but we were out of options.
I was 36 went I met now DH ...........he didn't have children and it was something we discussed at length.......my age and medical history were against us and I was very scared to reopen that door and to possibly have to come to terms with infertility all over again.
As difficult as that decision was it was NOTHING like having to deal with the finality of infertility.........infertility is far more painful than deciding whether or not to try and conceive!!!!
I now have two dc.

@stereeotype
Its tough I'm trying with 4 miscarriages and 1 cp under my belt, ttc num 1 but I want it that bad I'm not giving up because it would always be in my head next one could be my rainbow.

I think it's tougher to want but can't have rather than make the decision that you don't want kids. I feel like my body is failing me and that it's tough I feel less of a woman because I can't do want a woman is made to do, so to think if I made the decision not to have them years ago it would be a lot easier. Not alot of people know about my losses just people close to me because I feel embarrassed about it.

@stereeotype

Trying to have kids and it's proving so far not to be successful. Me and DH discussed last night the reality is - if it doesn't happen maybe it's not such a bad thing we both concluded.

We see a lot of parent regret it or have kids that perhaps didn't turn out what they expected for variety of reasons (move to other countries, become tearaways etc etc) so we are not going to stress ourselves out about it.

Trouble is, I feel like not having them - either through decision or indecision is a painful experience. We are not planning on moving to another city and the place we live isa small place the kinda place where 99 percent of people have kids and not having them means, well - you're the odd one out. No other way to describe it. I'm female too so have no friends without kids.

The societal pressure is too much. It's really getting to me.

It's just becoming quite painful. I think about it a lot, and I just think it's so hard not having kids. Really, really hard. Even when you've decided not to have them - it's like a life confined to making yourself the outsider.

How do I deal with this?

This is a sign that you do want kids. If you truly didn’t then societal expectation etc wouldn’t be so painful. In your position if I felt that way I would be doing everything possible to have kids even if it meant moving / doing it as a single mother, because the pain doesn’t go away it only transforms.

'But this year, three of my friends (who do not know each other and live in different areas) started families in their early forties, and I found this hard, as if in some sense I was “losing” them.'

Very much relate to this. In a sense, you really are losing them. Their lives will never be the same again, and there is no way to avoid that impacting your friendship. Add in the pain of your own ambivalence about children, and the longing and loss that you feel, and it's bloody tough

'This is a sign that you do want kids.'
It's just not that straightforward for everyone. OP clearly longs for aspects of parenting, but is rightly questioning whether the experience as a whole is right for her. It's really not as simple as 'want' or 'dont want', not for all of us

It's really refreshing to read others who feel similarly and I'm glad you posted this thread, OP.

Like a PP described, you don't often see women here who were on the fence and decided not to have DC and can now reflect on their lives and decision; most seem to go ahead and have a child and either 1) it's the best thing ever or 2) worst decision of their lives.

I remember one thread where a poster advised the OP to 'just have one child because that was practically the same as being childfree'. (!) Not only ridiculous but hugely hurtful to those who were never able to have DC and were desperately wanted.

It's one thing to feel a bit unsure but try anyway (like DH and I, without success) and feeling a bit unsure but then proceed with tests, ovulation kits, hospital appointments, medical procedures, etc.

I'm an overthinker anyway but having to decide at every point "so how much do we want this?" was exhausting.

IVF is still available and I'm having one of my periods of thinking 'shall we try once...' but then the reality of not being 100% sure parenthood will be positive for me will keep me on this circle of rumination.

Lots of people talk about a 'gut feeling' one way or the other but it's simply not true for everyone. It's complex.

Lottapianos - thank you for your empathy! I was surprised one of these people had a child and it made me feel like "everyone else is so sure about this that they go ahead - it is actually quite a big deal to have a child but it seems to be a no-brainer for most people."

Of course, I know this isn't true but this is mainly from reading people's stories online, not IRL. I read a book called "Motherhood - Is it for Me?" by Ann Davidman and Denise L. Carlini a few years ago: it is intended to be a decision-making process for women. While not necessarily the answer to everything for everyone, it has some valuable insights and experiences and was a helpful read. For me, journalling also really helps unpick how I really feel.

Haven't heard of that book floralfest, thanks for the tip

I think you're right that it's a 'no brainer' for a lot of people, and I find that pretty worrying! Of all the decisions to engage your brain in, becoming responsible for a whole new person should really be right up there. I really do think that the more discussion we can have about how having children can be a choice, an option, a maybe, and not necessarily the default, the better it is for everyone, whether you go on to be a parent or not.

My husband and I didn’t want children until we had been together for 10 years and thought I was pregnant accidentally and shrugged and said “would it be so bad if I was?”. I later had a very heavy period so perhaps I was? We decided to try and see what happened and the next three years are a blur of trying, failing, tests, medical procedures, cost and extreme heartache. It culminated in twins through IVF who are now nearly 18 and are everything to us, BUT, and it’s a big but, it has come at a cost, financially, peace of mind (I never stop worrying) and I would say my husband and I would have been a happier couple if we had not had children? They give enormous joy and stress in equal parts!

Now I’m facing them leaving for University and I am broken, they have been my life since before they were even conceived and my life revolves around them. I am trying to pick up more interests and work to pre-emptively cope with an empty nest. There is more to it all, elderly parents, elderly dogs and husband looking to retire. My life is going to be very different within the next few years and I am struggling to deal with that.

My honest advice is from the movie Parenthood. Some people enjoy the rollercoaster and some the merry-go-round. If you like an easy going life (as much as health and finances will allow) then stay a couple. If you want the highest high and lowest lows you can imagine then have kids. Neither is right or wrong, pick which suits you and don’t worry about anyone else.