DS15 just casually said something really disturbing about how their school treats "Special Ed" kids

[Evangeli]

"Did you know they make the Special Ed kids do all the chores at school?"

"Huh? What chores?"

"They empty the garbage bins and take them out"

"Wha? Which kids?"

"yeah, they go around the classrooms and empty the bins. They said it's to have them participate and be engaged. I think it's a just a cover to get them do chores".

Is it me or does this sound really messed up??

@saraclara thank you for saying eloquently what I have been struggling with all evening. It is appalling, and when I read all the posts saying its fine and it prepares them for their real life and organizational skills I felt it was an alternate reality.

@BadNomad

No offence to your son but the kids emptying bins has nothing to do with him and it isn't for his benefit or for the school's. It is for the kids involved. It teaches them responsibility and life skills (planning, time management, recycling). It is not demeaning. You and your son need to check your own attitudes if you think it is.

Bollocks. Total bollocks.

The children I've spent a lifetime teaching learned all those things without us abasing them in front of their peers.

Those young people are entitled to a full curriculum. It seems that this task has been going on for a long time. It's not a brief project or a curricular thing. They're keeping the kids with additional needs out of the classroom so they can focus on the others. And keeping them busy in a way that makes them feel worthless and demeans them to their peers.

It's making me furious they so many people are defending this.

American here.
It is very common. In Primary school (ages 6-12) they are given jobs like wiping the cafeteria tables and stacking the chairs after lunch time

OMG

This would be very different if all kids were clearing the tables on a Rota. But they purely make it a task for the SEND kids? That's absolutely disgusting, and marks those kids as only fit to be be their peers skivvies FROM PRIMARY AGE

I could weep.

Seriously, if that happened her in the UK, it would be all over the media. And OFSTED would unleash its wrath on the school.

It's past my bedtime but I'm not going to sleep tonight. I honestly thought we'd moved forward over the last few decades when it came to additional needs. But these examples and the number of people saying it's all fine is proving me wrong.

@saraclara sorry to mess up your night but it got to me too.

I was just saying to myself today I'm gonna keep out of the schools way for a while (some other non-related stuff had brought me in contact with principal more than I liked last week- nasty old man) I may get another couple of moms and see if they feel like poking the wasps nest.

Jobs like emptying the bins are also valuable work experience, whilst you may look down on cleaners or see it as menial it is a huge achievement for many children with special educational needs to be able to enter paid employment and a job as a cleaner is something many people would, and should, be very proud of. It is an important job and one which contributes to the effective running of the school, without people emptying the trash the school would quickly become an unpleasant place to be so it is a shame you haven’t pulled your son up on acting as if the job would be beneath him and on valueing the different contributions to society different people are able to make.

I agree that jobs like this are valuable and cleaners should be more respected and it should be more respected as a job. However, that isn’t what the school is teaching here. They are giving this job to a specific group of children with sen. It’s no wonder the son thinks this is beneath him - the school are basically saying ‘this is a job for children who have sen. They will empty your bins for you while you learn, you don’t need to take a turn doing this.’

I wouldn’t be happy if my autistic son was emptying the bins and doing cleaning jobs around school while other children without sen don’t take a turn of those jobs since they’re busy learning. I don’t think that sends the right message.

@Mamamia7962

You say garbage OP, are you in America?

I doubt it. If she was in America, it would be trash.

England, Australia, Canada, New Zealand etc etc etc all say garbage. Or rubbish. Americans say trash. You can always tell if someone is American because they say 'trash' instead of garbage (UK/English).

It’s quite common to read EHCPs for children with SEND which specify that they should take on roles with responsibility around the school. This could be setting up chairs, sharpening pencils on the art room or collecting recycling. It helps children to feel engaged with the school community, which can be confusing and full of minefields for neurodiverse pupils, and builds self-esteem as they realise that the role is valued by others.
The biggest issue here is that the other children don’t value that activity. As the teacher, I’d be making it clear that I see it as vital to the running of the school and raising the status across the community. And let’s face it: all brain surgeons will need refuse collectors, not all refuse collectors will need brain surgeons.

*I doubt it. If she was in America, it would be trash.

England, Australia, Canada, New Zealand etc etc etc all say garbage. Or rubbish. Americans say trash. You can always tell if someone is American because they say 'trash' instead of garbage (UK/English).*

The word for rubbish in the UK is rubbish. Not garbage or trash. I can't speak for Australia, Canada, New Zealand, etc, not having lived in any of those places, but I was born and bred in England and here, we take the rubbish out. Garbage is from North America, as, indeed, is trash.

Sorry, I got distracted by rubbish. I meant to say, yes, this situation sounds pretty Dickensian the way your kids describe/understand it, @Evangeli. I hope you find a way to tackle it with the school.

The children in my class help keep the classroom and cloakroom tidy and clean and why shouldn’t they? It’s called responsibility, it’s caring for and looking after our environment and our world. We all do it and we work in a lovely environment that’s clean and safe. We do litter picks and beach cleans at the weekend too.
Schools really can’t do right for doing wrong can they!

It might have been started with good intentions but the moment it starts being regarded by other students derogatorily than it should be rethought. Giving a job to ds2 first thing in the morning really helped him transition into school at a time he was very anxious and likely to run off. But the key was that it was a job (feeding the birds in his case) that was regarded positively by both ds2 and the other students.

@Seashor

The children in my class help keep the classroom and cloakroom tidy and clean and why shouldn’t they? It’s called responsibility, it’s caring for and looking after our environment and our world. We all do it and we work in a lovely environment that’s clean and safe. We do litter picks and beach cleans at the weekend too. Schools really can’t do right for doing wrong can they!

Sorry, I think you've spectacularly missed the point of the OP here!

I find this interesting as at primary school I found out that my DD had volunteered to pick the recyclable items out of the school bins on her break times. I was a bit shocked and inwardly didn’t like the idea of her rummaging through the rubbish instead of enjoying her break. I asked if she was given gloves and she said no. However, she said she really enjoyed it so I didn’t interfere. And I understood it was a green initiative. She is now being assessed for autism in secondary school. She has had long term anxiety and I think the likelihood of her being autistic is very high. I know the situation you are describing is quite different but I am just chipping in to say that the kids might enjoy their roles of responsibility. Like someone else said, my DD doesn’t ever think or care about whether she is uncool or doesn’t fit in. But, I definitely don’t think the bin collection should take place during class time. And I also think it should be open to all volunteers. Nor should it be compulsory for the kids who are doing it. If it happens to mostly be SEN kids who want to help out, then the other kids need to be educated on why they enjoy this kind of activity and how it helps them, rather than seeing it as them being exploited.

A lot of projecting going on on this thread and very little solid info from the OP.
Whose mind is well made up.

@Evangeli, if you are concerned about the appearance sen students are given by this job, then I would feed that back to the school. If it's a work/social initiative/support strategy, the school can educate all the students that this is the case and remind them to be respectful of all students.

If they are utilising the students as a fill in for paid cleaners, they may be more mindful of the tasks they ask their students to do.

I suspect the job is the former. But it doesn't sit right that they are doing this with other students in class. That, to me, invites mainstream students to target sen students as they see them as 'less than'. It's also hardly inclusive.

it is a shame you haven’t pulled your son up on acting as if the job would be beneath him and on valueing the different contributions to society different people are able to make.

Personally I think it's entirely positive that her son recognises that these young people are being devalued in front of their peers and wants to see things done differently.

There is no indication that OP's son devalues a refuse collectors job. But he recognises that these are fellow students who, instead of being educated, are taking out the rubbish in lesson time, not as party of s specific project, but regularly, and that most of the students in those lessons will see those SEND pupils as doing something of lower value than learning.

Where does it says the OP's child "knows" this is not part of a special project or class. Nowhere. We don't even know if it's waste or recycling. Cleaners won't pick up recycling in our school.
I can come up with a hypothesis that puts this as part of a citizenship class leading to a volunteer qualification for the children involved. That's just as much conjecture as the idea that the school is pulling out children who struggle to learn and telling them to collect rubbish to save some money and get them out of the teacher's way.
Both made up scenarios without any additional knowledge
Though I know which one would be more likely.

As described by the OP this is unacceptable and in the UK the school would be in trouble with ofsted. It would be viewed as the pupils with disabilities being expected to clean up after the pupils without disabilities.

How pupils with SEND are likely to be viewed by other pupils is very important. This type of situation is divisive and far from inclusive.

Lots of Sen groups in my school have nice things that they have voted to implement eg recycling , gardening club, maintenance programs etc

I suppose to an outsider it might look as though they are doing "menial " tasks. But they have asked to do these, gives them a focus outside traditional teaching , builds their social skills , helps them plan projects and acquire new skills

"Lots of Sen groups in my school have nice things that they have voted to implement eg recycling , gardening club, maintenance programs etc"

That is not what is being described here and also the aspect of how whatever activity is done looks to the other pupils is very important.

In the old days of secondary moderns whole classes of girls were taught to cook and serve food ( act as hostess) to the boys in the class. Nothing wrong with learning to cook but the whole aspect of this set up would be unacceptable now.

it is a shame you haven’t pulled your son up on acting as if the job would be beneath him and on valueing the different contributions to society different people are able to make.

Personally I think it's entirely positive that her son recognises that these young people are being devalued in front of their peers and wants to see things done differently.

Both of these things are true. Great that he picked up on it, but shitty that he said “are you kidding me” at the suggestion that all kids did it, as if it were beneath him.

But the words apple and tree come to mind here. Using the word “normal” to describe children without SEN isn’t acceptable, even if you put it in quotes. In fact arguably that’s worse because it shows you know that’s not the right word, you just can’t be bothered to find out or think about what a better one would be. Saying “that’s what they call them here” and just using the term “Special Ed kids” anyway. And my favourite “not exactly Mr. Woke Social Justice teen of the year”. There is nothing “woke” about wanting children with SEN to be treated with dignity and respect.

@pictish

No offence intended OP but you don’t seem to know much about it. That’s ok…no one is expected to know everything. Those of us with experience in education and additional support needs are offering you a different perspective.

I do have experience of this. Masses of it, and my multiple posts make it clear that I absolutely agree with the OP.

Within specialist schools like my own, there is the flexibility and the global ethos to respond to needs in different ways without risking self esteem, or the way that our pupils are perceived by their peers. But in a mainstream high school, no way would I put pupils with additional needs in this position. Other teenagers are unlikely to see beyond those kids being 'other' and seeming unfit to actually be in lessons and deserving of academics.