DS15 just casually said something really disturbing about how their school treats "Special Ed" kids

[Evangeli]

"Did you know they make the Special Ed kids do all the chores at school?"

"Huh? What chores?"

"They empty the garbage bins and take them out"

"Wha? Which kids?"

"yeah, they go around the classrooms and empty the bins. They said it's to have them participate and be engaged. I think it's a just a cover to get them do chores".

Is it me or does this sound really messed up??

No I totally appreciate my son may become a cleaner.

the fact remains that as a society, we stigmatize and devalue these jobs -wrongly so-! and the people who perform them.

@vinoandbrie Same. I feel outraged on behalf these kids I don't even know!

As far as I know, in my son's high school which is largest in our small town are with over 1000+ students, these students are in separate classes.

@starfishmummy exactly! That is the message it sends.

i can see what you are saying.
could you raise it through the PTA.
when i was at junior school we had to put our chairs up on desks at end of day, and on friday sweep the classroom too.
i was excused swimming due to being delicate, having been in off sick long term.
while the others went to swimming, i stayed in the classroom, clambering under the desks to clean the floor. even the form teacher commented that i was expending more energy than i would have done if i'd gone to the baths.

It’s most likely they’re doing the recycling, not emptying the normal bins

This would never happen in the UK at least not in the many Schools around here.

This being a UK site it really would help if the OP could state what country they are talking about otherwise we waste so much time reading through confused and baffled posts

I’m all for having children helping out but having students with special needs emptying the bins if children without special needs don’t!! Hmmmmm...I don’t like that.

I’m a teach at a special school. There is a lot of benefit to students completing life skills task such as emptying the bins.

From an educational point of view it can teach students organisational skills (Eg: following a work list, remembering which classrooms to go to and in which order), support understanding that items in the bins don’t just disappear but there is a larger process for waste disposal, help with sorting skills (Eg: different types of recyclables), maths (Eg: if there are 4 classrooms each with 2 bins how many bin bags will you collect), support students to develop gross and fine motor skills (Eg: replacing the bag) and enable students to work independently or with reduced adult support and of course it gives opportunities for students who may struggle with academic type activities an opportunity to complete a task successfully and feel proud. It can build confidence for students and support social skills and understanding around concepts such as needing to knock on doors, how and when it’s appropriate to talk to others in the room etc.

Work such as this also gives students meaningful sensory input, meaning they are up out of their seats and active and the ‘heavy work’ of lifting up the bins/ rubbish bags etc helps give sensory feedback through upper limbs. All of this sensory feedback can help students maintain the correct level of arousal attend their next session feeling ready to learn and engage.

Jobs like emptying the bins are also valuable work experience, whilst you may look down on cleaners or see it as menial it is a huge achievement for many children with special educational needs to be able to enter paid employment and a job as a cleaner is something many people would, and should, be very proud of. It is an important job and one which contributes to the effective running of the school, without people emptying the trash the school would quickly become an unpleasant place to be so it is a shame you haven’t pulled your son up on acting as if the job would be beneath him and on valueing the different contributions to society different people are able to make.

Special education is about teaching students functional life skills and preparing them for adulthood so opportunities to practice skills they can generally use in the future so opportunities to engage in real work experience is hugely valuable. It’s not exploitative if it enables students to develop skills and increases the chances of the students having paid employment in the future.

@GoingForAWalk

This would never happen in the UK at least not in the many Schools around here.

This being a UK site it really would help if the OP could state what country they are talking about otherwise we waste so much time reading through confused and baffled posts

She already has 🙄 and it's not a UK site

Fact is OP your DS has noticed that SEN DC are cleaning out the garbage which is humiliating for these DC.

@sparepantsandtoothbrush obviously I mean in the title not 20 posts down.

MN is a UK site that people from around the works can access

@WonderfulYou

This was my thought immediately. I mean, calling them 'special ed' kids is pretty shit to start with.

Special Ed is just short for special educational needs which is what we call it in the UK but we abbreviate it to SEN/D

Everyone knows what it's short for ffs. But they're still children with special education needs not special ed kids

[quote GoingForAWalk]@sparepantsandtoothbrush obviously I mean in the title not 20 posts down.

MN is a UK site that people from around the works can access [/quote]
"obviously" 😂 ok

Where are you? From your wording, this isn't a British school.

Disgusting if it's compelled.

@sparepantsandtoothbrush

I see you're just on here to antagonise, Good luck with that and have fun.

@ChittyChittyBoomBoom

Context is everything!

I knew of a child with asd whose special interest was vacuum cleaners. He could often be found vacuuming the Head’s office or even the corridors ☺️. This was used as part of a reward system for him.

When I first visited ds2's school, there was a lad being rewarded by cleaning the office windows with a jar her window vac. I knew it was the school for him because he was obsessed with mine, at the time!

My son is a lot younger but has SEN and at school when he gets overwhelmed or distracted he is given little - so can be quickly and easily done by someone else if not done, and doesn’t need to be done with any importance - jobs like tidying something or moving something. He feels like he is being helpful and motivated as he always has something to do, and I suppose it can help a bit with self esteem at feeling special, like he is doing something different to the other kids. Maybe these are factors to consider

Did you say
They are not "the Special Ed kids
They are just kids like you

Is it school that labels groups of kids?

What is your dc label?

As someone who would be classed as an SEN student its hard to say. Some students might mask their disability so they aren't disengaged or misbehaving in lessons but just suffering in silence so doubt they would get asked to do this. But other students might literally not be able to sit still and would prefer to walk around emptying bins.

American here.
It is very common. In Primary school (ages 6-12) they are given jobs like wiping the cafeteria tables and stacking the chairs after lunch time.In Secondary School (ages 13-19) the jobs expand to include running the Pencil Store (where students can buy basic supplies) or the Sweet Store (where students can get ice cream after lunch. This involves social interaction and counting money, so is for the more advanced students. The idea is that most of them will have adult vocations as janitors, store stockers, bus boys, waitresses, etc. They get credits for the work and in their final year they are placed in a compatible job and start earning wages while still in school.
Not defending it - just saying it happens frequently.

[quote GoingForAWalk]@sparepantsandtoothbrush

I see you're just on here to antagonise, Good luck with that and have fun. [/quote]
I'm really not. You used the word obviously when it really wasn't obvious. If people bothered to get the whole story by reading the whole thread rather than just jumping on the first post then stupid questions wouldn't repeatedly be asked

No offence to your son but the kids emptying bins has nothing to do with him and it isn't for his benefit or for the school's. It is for the kids involved. It teaches them responsibility and life skills (planning, time management, recycling). It is not demeaning. You and your son need to check your own attitudes if you think it is.

This seems like could be more a matter of perception. This may be a very valuable learning programme as well as useful. However it is obviously not known as part of the curriculum by the other kids. If it is a regular programme for a group, rather than just one individual it could be part of the school prospectus or an article about it on website like the might about a maths or English programme. That could be achieved by an article on school magazine if they have that, similar to a new science project or examples of art from Exam years. Actually OP do have a look to see what information is on school website/FB about SEN.

This may happen but not necessarily the way he is suggesting.

In several schools I've been in the special ed students have a number of programs that are very practically oriented, as well as schoolwork. One common one is making popcorn and running the snack canteen in the school. And also managing the recycling - gathering the bins from the classes, sorting them, keeping track of how much they get back for the exchange, and so on.

It could seem exploitative, but in part that relates to people's attitudes to labour, which many people have very little real respect for.

The main downside to me is that really, other school kids should do some of these things too.

I appreciate the input by the teachers saying this is useful for the kids.

I did mention this is Canada. Nobody on mumsnet puts the country they're writing from in the post titles, it never even occurred to me.

however it is interesting that UK mumsnetters are just as bewildered as I am, stating "this would never happen in the UK". (I grew up in the UK, moved to Canada as an adult). If something is wrong, it's wrong, doesn't matter if it's in the UK or Canada.

However beneficial to the kids themselves, I still feel without providing the school community (including other kids!) the proper context and awareness, it comes off as humiliating and stigmatizing both to the kids and to the actual job of cleaning.

Does the school not have a budget for janitorial maintenance?

I think either all kids should have an option to participate, or its ridiculous to single out a "special group" for tasks which are commonly seen as menial in society.

I was chatting to DD who graduated from this school last earlier- "Did you know about this?"
"Oh yes, It's weird. They clean and take garbage out. Super fucked up. But you know, not my place to say anything".

I have spent a 40 year career teaching in various special schools, and only in the bad old days would this have happened outside the curriculum (so.when learning about recycling etc). In mainstream high school it absolutely should not be happening. For exactly this reason (among others).

What we / our children see is that a bunch of kids labelled as "Special Ed" go around during classroom hours and empty the garbage of the classes of the "normal" kids. I really don't think that is conducive to a harmonious inclusive tolerant educational environment.

It's absolutely appalling, and I'm shocked at the number of people saying it's okay.

There are lots of ways to engage kids with additional needs who struggle in the classroom. There are lots of ways to help them feel purposeful and useful. But they're entitled to an education, and collecting the rubbish in lesson time, in front of classrooms full of children who do not have additional needs, is not beneficial in any way. And the message it sends out to the other pupils and teachers is absolutely shocking.