DS15 just casually said something really disturbing about how their school treats "Special Ed" kids

[Evangeli]

"Did you know they make the Special Ed kids do all the chores at school?"

"Huh? What chores?"

"They empty the garbage bins and take them out"

"Wha? Which kids?"

"yeah, they go around the classrooms and empty the bins. They said it's to have them participate and be engaged. I think it's a just a cover to get them do chores".

Is it me or does this sound really messed up??

Dont like the sound of it being during class time and only the SEN students. It's not "all the chores" though - it's one task. Do you know any of the parents of SEN students? If so maybe ask for their take on it.

My daughter's English school has litter picking as a form of detention for students that don't pass end of module tests. To be honest it only sounded disturbing when I found out that some of the kids think it's hysterical to throw cans and half eaten food at students doing litter picking. No wonder our local streets look like a badly loaded skip went by.

This is high school- kids are super conscious about social status and when asked DS does everyone take turn doing the garbage he said are you kidding me??

SEN kids often don’t care as much not being seen as ‘cool’.
There will be kids in your sons class that would love to do those jobs but they don’t volunteer as then they’d be seen as goody goodies or teachers pet etc.

I really wish people would use the right labels. The fact that your son, and you, call them "special ed kids" is pretty grim in itself.

However, I know other schools do this with children who just aren't academic and would rather not be in a classroom but learning day to day skills. Could it be something like that?

The only issue with this is that apparently its only the SN kids are doing at that needs looking at if its true.

However I think all the kids should be cleaning the school, just like they do in Japan. That why Japan is so clean and the `U.K is shithole.

@3peassuit

It sounds implausible. Is this in the UK?

This was my thought immediately. I mean, calling them 'special ed' kids is pretty shit to start with.

I dunno, I have no expertise in this area- maybe it is highly useful and organizational for Special Ed kids to collect garbage from classrooms

And given that most people and other kids will be seeing this without context or expertise, it just comes off as stigmatizing and exploitative. It stigmatizes cleaning as well as the kids.

I used to teach a SEN class for young adults. I loved it but it was like spinning plates making sure every student's needs were met. This is hard to articulate because I just "did it" but I didn't expect them to work and learn solid for the whole time. I bought into their individual interests to break up the time and stop frustration and distress because of difficulties in concentration, etc. So, I had a little band of "car boys" who I'd take to the window when we heard a particularly interesting engine parking up (I know nothing about cars!), a stroll round band where we'd just take a walk round the room, my sitter - who liked to perch on my desk for a minute to take time out and one boy who, when we took our mid session canteen break calmed by going round, picking up and binning all the table litter left by the main campus students. I don't know the situation at your son's school but I suppose to an outsider that may look exploitative. That boy really did love doing it though and went back to class full of enthusiasm.

To emphasize- there is nothing shameful, in my opinion, about cleaning and taking out the trash.

But we can't deny that socially it is looked down upon. Having "Special Ed" kids do it "to keep them engaged" furthers that.

I don't like that terminology myself, but that is what the school calls them.

I wondered whether their parents knew and what they thought about it.

I would have no issue with it if all the kids were doing it or if was a recycling club where any kids could join.

This was my thought immediately. I mean, calling them 'special ed' kids is pretty shit to start with.

Special Ed is just short for special educational needs which is what we call it in the UK but we abbreviate it to SEN/D

In Scotland it’s ASN - additional support needs.
They are children with additional support needs.

Also having special educational needs does not mean someone has problems with their mental health. Also the vast majority of people with SEN are also neuro-typical.

But we can't deny that socially it is looked down upon. Having "Special Ed" kids do it "to keep them engaged" furthers that.

It’s not about keeping them engaged as in finding something for them to do so we don’t go mad - they WANT to do things like that and it would be cruel to make them sit in a classroom all day working and not let them do their little jobs or whatever makes them happy.

@WonderfulYou

This was my thought immediately. I mean, calling them 'special ed' kids is pretty shit to start with.

Special Ed is just short for special educational needs which is what we call it in the UK but we abbreviate it to SEN/D

I know perfectly well what it means, but they are not labelled 'Special ed kids' - they are children with SEN (or additional needs).

@WonderfulYou I get it. It makes sense. It's just that from the point of view of outsiders and the neurotypical kids sitting the classroom, it looks as if they are "being used". Maybe the kids needs more awareness and education then so they don't think their school is engaged in a cheap labour scam with the Special ed kids?

No offence intended OP but you don’t seem to know much about it. That’s ok…no one is expected to know everything. Those of us with experience in education and additional support needs are offering you a different perspective.

I think its an interesting way hes framed it, as it just shows how hes already stigmatised certain parts of society? Imagine having noone that helped with the physical maintenance and keeping of the school.

I don't think you are being unreasonable, OP. Your son sounds quite a thoughtful kid.

I could see individual pupils with this as their special interest doing it at my son's special school but it doesn't happen as described in UK schools. There usually isn't a group of children called Special Ed or similar. UK schools don't have that set up.

I also agree the labelling is problematic but that's how they are called in the school system, as far as I know. I've only seen the "SEN" abbreviation here on mumsnet. Here it is "Special Education" or "Special needs" (which is worse)

One of my DD has additional needs. If this was her at school I’d be outraged, and she’d be withdrawn that day. That’s how strongly I would feel about it.

I am more concerned that both you and your dc refer to these children as "the special ed kids".
For a start, there will be many children with special educational needs in any class. I usually have close to half a dozen children with dyslexia in each class, for example.

@WonderfulYou

But we can't deny that socially it is looked down upon. Having "Special Ed" kids do it "to keep them engaged" furthers that.

It’s not about keeping them engaged as in finding something for them to do so we don’t go mad - they WANT to do things like that and it would be cruel to make them sit in a classroom all day working and not let them do their little jobs or whatever makes them happy.

But you dont understand, its not just to "keep them engaged" it's teaching them skills they can use in adulthood. So they can be contributing members of society. As for it being "socially looked down upon" I guess maybe to you it is. We don't "look down" on our janitors at our school. As I said I dont know the level of the kids in your son's school, but I would assume they typical to the kids I work with if this is what they are doing. So tell me, what do you think would be a better lesson for them to learn instead of work skills? Again, not everyone is able to work at jobs that you and your society deem acceptable. Your posts really bother me as someone who works with these amazing kids and we work hard to learn skills they can use when they grow up. Its horrible to read how you think society looks down on these jobs and these kids for doing them. I guess your lucky that you dont have a child that perhaps their abilities may lead them to be a cleaner when they grow up instead of a "socially acceptable job"

@pictish I don't take offence- I'm acknowledging that I -and most other people- don't know anything about it. What we / our children see is that a bunch of kids labelled as "Special Ed" go around during classroom hours and empty the garbage of the classes of the "normal" kids. I really don't think that is conducive to a harmonious inclusive tolerant educational environment. I understand the teachers need to keep them busy and the kids themselves may even enjoy it, but I really wish there was a different way of framing it.

@Evangeli

I think primary is different. My DD and her friends used to run the "snack shack" and answer phones during lunch and even do a bit of filing and tidy up of the main office. It was a sign-up system- they loved doing it and took turns. This is high school- kids are super conscious about social status and when asked DS does everyone take turn doing the garbage he said are you kidding me??

I think the alarming thing is the message it's sending to the other students - that it's OK for the "special Ed" pupils to do that job but not for anyone else as shown by your son's attitude when you asked about others taking turns.