To try to find out how my uncle died?

[Keke94LND]

So 18 years ago, my uncle died, I was 9 at the time.

I don't remember a lot about my uncle, he was very quiet, quite reclusive, he lived with my Nan pretty much until he died (he was in his 40s) I know he had mental health problems and possibly some drug addictions.

Since his death, no one in my family has ever really talked about him, I think it's mainly because they don't want to bring him up around my Nan, although in recent years my Nan has talked about him a few times. But every time she has I've been sort of shocked just because he is never spoken about. It's like him and his death is some sort of family secret or topic that we don't speak about, for some reason.

I have spoken to my mum about him and his death before, but she has no idea how he died, no one does, except for my Nan. and for some reason even though they are incredibly close, my mum has never/won't ask her.

I have always been curious of what happened, especially because it's a secret, WIBU to try and find out what happened? I am considering trying to find/buy his death certificate as surely that will state cause of death, the only thing stopping me is, is the next of kin ever notified if someone orders a death certificate? (I.e will my Nan find out I have ordered it? I wouldn't want to upset her

My mum was like this as well, never engaged when I asked about family, changed the subject, and as my sister and I got older and asked more questions, my mum would go off on one completely. We never asked anymore, just knew not to. We are only finding out stuff about our heritage since my mum died 14 years ago.

Btw, you can order a copy of a death certificate yourself for your uncle, you just need a few of his details, I can’t recall how much it costs but I needed to get a death certificate for my late father who died in 1983 in order to try and find out about sone health issues.

It's easy to order a death certificate but I think you need to consider what your motivation is. Because, on a surface level, on here it sounds as though you're motivated by 'digging into a secret' and 'finding forbidden information'. They're not good motivations for looking into family history when the person who is most affected by it (your nan) is still alive.
I don't believe that your mum doesn't know what happened so she is also choosing to keep the information from you and your siblings. I think you have to honour that which means keeping all the information to yourself if you do send away for a death certificate. Everyone closely involved with this (your nan and your mum) don't want to discuss it. You need to respect that.

@GoodnightGrandma

It used to be, many years ago, that you couldn’t be buried in a church grave yard if you had committed suicide, so very often the cause wasn’t spoken about, so they could have a religious burial. The shame carried on for many years.

Just adding to this that until 1961 attempted suicide was a crime. So the families of those who succeeded were ashamed by this and kept it quiet. I clearly remember that other people in conversations would drop their voices and in a whisper say He/She committed suicide you know.

Very sad.

@Bouledeneige

Well I'd take your Nans lead and when she mentions him again engage in conversation with her. But I'd be cautious about the research. My sister did this and very much upset my Dad by telling him things he didn't want to know. He's 90 and really didn't need to know more details about a very sad circumstance. We all told her not to tell him and I personally couldn't work out why she needed to know. We are not all entitled to know everything.

To be honest I get your sister’s curiosity @Bouledeneige as I was the same about my family and had many burning questions about what had happened. I did do some research myself, however I did keep what I found to myself. I think you were absolutely right that whatever your sister chose to find out was for her to process and to keep to herself on the basis that if others wanted to know they’d have done the same research. We need to respect how other people choose to handle these events and tread carefully.

@Veh1970

BingBongToTheMoon No, no one will know or be told. Anyone can order certificates. Can they? I seem to recall that the last time I ordered certificates I had to state the relationship to the person, this didn't use to be the case. Maybe I've remembered it incorrectly.

No you don't have to give any personal information when ordering a certificate. Birth, Marriage and death certificates are in the public domain. You can order them from the General Registry Office online. It's costs about £20 and they take 10 days to two weeks to arrive.

www.gov.uk/order-copy-birth-death-marriage-certificate

It's £11.

Order the death certificate from GRO but I wouldn’t bring it up with your Nan as it clearly upsets her. Just keep the information to yourself. I’ve done extensive family research and order certificates all the time. There are a few suicides or other sad deaths that weren’t openly talked about so I keep those details private.

I think it's highly unlikely your Mum doesn't know.

@user1493494961

I think it's highly unlikely your Mum doesn't know.

Tbh I don't know how things work with deaths, how would my mum know unless she specifically asked my grandma?

@MrsTulipTattsyrup

I do a lot of family research both for work and my own interest, and I firmly believe that if your family doesn’t talk about something from the past, it’s because they don’t want to, and therefore if you love them you should respect that. You can cause a whole world of hurt to people if you ride roughshod over their wishes.

I had a situation in my family where my grandpa didn’t talk about his family, and so I never investigated during his lifetime. I waited until long after he was gone and then started my research, comfortable in the knowledge that anything I turned up couldn’t be hurtful to him.

Maybe the time for you to look into this is after your Nan can’t be hurt by your looking into it all.

This absolutely. There are "things not talked about" in my family and in my late husband's. I think its absolutely right to respect those wishes while they are alive. personally I would think twice as well about investigating after they have died unless there is a better reason than curiosity.

My maternal grandfather committed suicide in 1958 (the year I was born) , a few months after the death of his beloved wife. He was unable to be buried next to his wife because of the manner of his death, absolutely dreadful. As I grew it was something that was never talked about, only hinted at in hushed voices. It understandably impacted my Mum greatly so I avoided asking questions.
Newspaper reports, death certificates, and inquest records were relatively easy to find. Only 18 years ago in your case so should be fairly simple.
I certainly never discussed this with other family members unless they asked.

Why do you want to know how he died, its obviously a very sensitive situation and how would you feel if he suffered a traumatic death that his mum and sister have never come to terms with.

@Keke94LND

but surely your mum knew the police called round so surely she would ask what happened ? It could have been a car accident or a heart attack etc . Surely she would have asked ?

Please be careful to respect your families wishes. Maybe you could look at a few stories from parents whose children died to help you understand. There is so much trauma that goes with this type of death. Sometimes not talking about it may be the only way to function.

A good place to go for help might be your relevant Coroner's Court. I've found them very helpful, as a bereaved relative. They see reports on all deaths and make the decision as to whether or not an inquest is necessary.

It seems perfectly reasonable to want to know more about your Uncle who was part of your childhood. It doesn't sound morbid at all to me. More a question of 'What did happen to Uncle X?' It's unfinished business for you.

As PPs have suggested, your Nan might like a chance to talk about her son. Bringinging him up in conversation sounds like she would. You'll never know without gently asking. The worst would be her making it obvious she doesn't weant to talk to you. Yes, she might be upset, but believe me, the grief of a bereaved parent never goes away entirely. However well we try to bury it.

Tbh I don't know how things work with deaths, how would my mum know unless she specifically asked my grandma?
Why would she not have asked at the time? A sudden death in someone so young, of course she would have. It would have been reported in the press, a post mortem, and likely an inquest - inquests are matters for the public record. Friends, family, & neighbours would have discussed the event.

If your grandmother was informed by police about your uncle's death, is it possible it was reported in a newspaper at the time? Maybe a local newspaper archive would have an article about it if you entered his name on a search.
Just thinking of an alternate source.

I find it really, incredibly bizarre that your mum doesn't know.

At some point your Nan said "Your brother has died" and your mum "ok, fine." With no questions?!

You can order a death certificate from the GRO. No one will know you have ordered it.

If there might have been an inquest the details might have been reported in a local newspaper. Your library might have copies or know where they are. There's also the British Newspaper Archive available on Find My Past, this is often free to use at libraries.

[quote Unsure33]@Keke94LND

but surely your mum knew the police called round so surely she would ask what happened ? It could have been a car accident or a heart attack etc . Surely she would have asked ?[/quote]
Yeah I have no idea if the interaction between mum and Nan when it happened 🤷🏼‍♀️ I mean, if it was my sibling I would ask, but although mum and Nan are close, Nan is a closed book with a lot of topics, maybe mum didn't feel she could ask 🤷🏼‍♀️ I'm not sure really

Just to add, I know several people who have killed themselves and clearly stated an intention to do this. The inquest ruled inconclusive because of pressure from a relative not to find for suicide. So death certificates don't always tell you what actually happened.

Veh1970
BingBongToTheMoon
No, no one will know or be told.
Anyone can order certificates.
Can they? I seem to recall that the last time I ordered certificates I had to state the relationship to the person, this didn't use to be the case. Maybe I've remembered it incorrectly.

No you don't have to give any personal information when ordering a certificate. Birth, Marriage and death certificates are in the public domain. You can order them from the General Registry Office online. It's costs about £20 and they take 10 days to two weeks to arrive.

www.gov.uk/order-copy-birth-death-marriage-certificate


It's £11.

Even better!

As a PP mentioned upthread, don't tell your sisters. If you do find out the cause of death, keep it to yourself. A secret told is a secret no more.

When I was a teen I found out in a roundabout way (small town, big mouths) that a family member of my grandparent's generation had been married before. As I considered divorce not a big 'thing' I told my sister. Next thing I know I have a member of that 'branch' calling me asking how I found out and why I 'told the secret'. That particular branch of the family is very religious and it was considered 'shameful'.

I expect your uncle died of suicide, AIDS, or possibly a drug overdose. And I suspect that unless your gran & uncle lived far away and 'isolated' from the rest of the family, more family members know his cause of death than you realize.

It is possible your mum may not know the exact cause of death. It is quite probable that she knows the circumstances of the death as she will have asked why the police were at the house. However, the cause of death may have been determined at a post mortem and your gran may never have shared the pm details with her.

@AcrossthePond55

As a PP mentioned upthread, don't tell your sisters. If you do find out the cause of death, keep it to yourself. A secret told is a secret no more.

When I was a teen I found out in a roundabout way (small town, big mouths) that a family member of my grandparent's generation had been married before. As I considered divorce not a big 'thing' I told my sister. Next thing I know I have a member of that 'branch' calling me asking how I found out and why I 'told the secret'. That particular branch of the family is very religious and it was considered 'shameful'.

I expect your uncle died of suicide, AIDS, or possibly a drug overdose. And I suspect that unless your gran & uncle lived far away and 'isolated' from the rest of the family, more family members know his cause of death than you realize.

Unfortunately there isn't a lot of family to know.. on my mums side of the family it is just mum and my Nan. Grandad died years before I was born, then it was mum, uncle and Nan until my uncle died. Nan did have a brother but he died when he was in his 20s. My Nan has lost a lot of people :(