To try to find out how my uncle died?

[Keke94LND]

So 18 years ago, my uncle died, I was 9 at the time.

I don't remember a lot about my uncle, he was very quiet, quite reclusive, he lived with my Nan pretty much until he died (he was in his 40s) I know he had mental health problems and possibly some drug addictions.

Since his death, no one in my family has ever really talked about him, I think it's mainly because they don't want to bring him up around my Nan, although in recent years my Nan has talked about him a few times. But every time she has I've been sort of shocked just because he is never spoken about. It's like him and his death is some sort of family secret or topic that we don't speak about, for some reason.

I have spoken to my mum about him and his death before, but she has no idea how he died, no one does, except for my Nan. and for some reason even though they are incredibly close, my mum has never/won't ask her.

I have always been curious of what happened, especially because it's a secret, WIBU to try and find out what happened? I am considering trying to find/buy his death certificate as surely that will state cause of death, the only thing stopping me is, is the next of kin ever notified if someone orders a death certificate? (I.e will my Nan find out I have ordered it? I wouldn't want to upset her

I thought you could only order death certificates after a certain amount of time has elapsed?

Out of respect to my mum, I wouldn’t. She either knows or she really doesn’t want to.

@21stDentistryGirl

I thought you could only order death certificates after a certain amount of time has elapsed?

Out of respect to my mum, I wouldn’t. She either knows or she really doesn’t want to.

Yes, it's about 3 months. It can take up to 12 weeks for the event to be entered on the registry.

It used to be, many years ago, that you couldn’t be buried in a church grave yard if you had committed suicide, so very often the cause wasn’t spoken about, so they could have a religious burial.
The shame carried on for many years.

@TheYearOfSmallThings

LemonJuiceFromConcentrate

I do not think I sound aggressive. I think you do not like the question I asked, and you are accusing me of being aggressive instead of honestly considering what it would feel like to have someone tangentially connected to real life events which have caused you pain deciding to investigate those events to satisfy their curiosity.

It’s not about whether I like your question, it’s that it doesn’t really make sense. You keep on suggesting I am disregarding the feelings of the person guarding the secret. That is the opposite of what I’ve said. It’s like you are not reading the bits where I keep on reiterating, I don’t think it would be a good idea to confront or press anyone to talk about painful issues.

But the feelings of other family members matter too. And I’m talking about them (like in this case the op) quietly looking into stuff via something they have every right to look at, like a death certificate. (Loads of other posters are also saying that would be fine btw, it’s not just me.) The person who finds it hard to discuss does not need to know anything about this.

I am happy to reply to your question though. Yes, yes I honestly think it is absolutely fine for a person to feel curious about their own family stories. And to look into those stories by doing something like ordering a death certificate.

I think it’s wrong to frame that curiosity and those actions as prying. I don’t think the OP would be prying in this case. And she isn’t “tangentially connected”, it’s her close family.

Not really sure how I can be clearer.

@saraclara

probably wouldn't tell my mum whatever I've found, like you say, I think she may rather not know, I may tell my sisters, but only if it came up in conversation

I think anything you find out should be kept entirely to yourself. If you start telling your siblings, you lose control of the information, and before you know it, your mum or your nan hear it, or at best, hear that you have it. Then things get complicated.

That's true, maybe I wouldn't tell anyway then actually

I truly think that out of respect to your grandmother you need to wait until she dies. She clearly doesn’t want to share the cause of death and I think you need to respect. I understand you want to know but you don’t need to know at the moment and I find it quite shocking that you feel that your curiosity trumps the wishes of your living grandparent as to what happened to her own child.

I find It so odd that your mother doesn't know.

@Oneforthemoneytwo

I truly think that out of respect to your grandmother you need to wait until she dies. She clearly doesn’t want to share the cause of death and I think you need to respect. I understand you want to know but you don’t need to know at the moment and I find it quite shocking that you feel that your curiosity trumps the wishes of your living grandparent as to what happened to her own child.

I suppose this is why I am asking if I would be unreasonable doing so, I'm not really sure it's shocking though, it's not like I am some random stranger to my grandma and her family, I am part of her family.. if my uncle was my dad instead of 'just' my uncle, would it be shocking?

@autummvibes

I find It so odd that your mother doesn't know.

I agree - given that the police were involved and the grandmother went to her daughter's/OP's mum's house immediately afterwards, the very first thing to be asked is "what on earth happened"? I think your mum does know OP, but doesn't want to talk about it.

You know your nan best, but seperate from he curiosity about his death maybe it’s worth asking her sometime if she’d like to talk about him?

Sometimes people feel like they don’t want to burden others so they don’t talk about people who have died but it would be massively helpful for them to. It would be awful if she was stuck in a loop of not talking about him because she thought no one wanted to hear about him and no one asked her because they thought she didn’t like to talk about it.

You know your nan best, but seperate from he curiosity about his death maybe it’s worth asking her sometime if she’d like to talk about him?

I think that's a kind and humane point, actually. Your uncle was more than his death, @Keke94LND -- he was also your grandmother's son. She might want to talk about his childhood. I can't imagine she hasn't tormented herself with the unhappiness of his adult life on a regular basis. It might be a relief to be able to talk about the good and the bad.

I don’t know how much time you spend with your Nan @Keke94LND but the fact she speaks about him occasionally shows that he is not off limits. I think I would start a conversation about him as a person, not the manner of his death.

My family is rather like yours and the habit of remaining buttoned up about a sad or tragic event with no one daring to go there is one I recognise. I did initiate a conversation in my family about 20 years after a murder-suicide involving my grandparents (when I was 12). I sought to understand who they were; their life stories, not about what happened, though the full story was eventually explained to me. I think my work as a psychotherapist working with trauma made it easier for me to ask open questions and let the habit of talking about them as people develop over time. In my case I think my DF felt some relief in being able to talk about the people he loved in the general sense; their talents, their flaws, their interests, their habits, their story, without people cutting off the conversation to talk about the weather. The subject may be painful; I know I heard things that were sad but telling me about the event didn’t make it worse for any of us.

@Seasonschange

You know your nan best, but seperate from he curiosity about his death maybe it’s worth asking her sometime if she’d like to talk about him?

Sometimes people feel like they don’t want to burden others so they don’t talk about people who have died but it would be massively helpful for them to. It would be awful if she was stuck in a loop of not talking about him because she thought no one wanted to hear about him and no one asked her because they thought she didn’t like to talk about it.

Yeah this is something I have wondered a bit more recently as an adult, do we not talk about him because we don't want to bring him up in front of Nan, and does she not talk about him because she doesn't want to or is it because no one else talks about him.. I don't know, but then equally, adults set the tone for things like that, so as a kid I didn't really have a lot of control over what we spoke about, I just kind of knew not to speak about that, if that makes sense

@YouokHun

I don’t know how much time you spend with your Nan *@Keke94LND* but the fact she speaks about him occasionally shows that he is not off limits. I think I would start a conversation about him as a person, not the manner of his death.

My family is rather like yours and the habit of remaining buttoned up about a sad or tragic event with no one daring to go there is one I recognise. I did initiate a conversation in my family about 20 years after a murder-suicide involving my grandparents (when I was 12). I sought to understand who they were; their life stories, not about what happened, though the full story was eventually explained to me. I think my work as a psychotherapist working with trauma made it easier for me to ask open questions and let the habit of talking about them as people develop over time. In my case I think my DF felt some relief in being able to talk about the people he loved in the general sense; their talents, their flaws, their interests, their habits, their story, without people cutting off the conversation to talk about the weather. The subject may be painful; I know I heard things that were sad but telling me about the event didn’t make it worse for any of us.

Gosh, that must have been so hard, sorry that happened to your family

Eighteen years ago AIDS was still causing a lot of deaths. Is it possible he was homosexual and contracted HIV? If so, your gran may feel ashamed.

why not just open the conversation with your Nan or Mum?
Don't dive in deep with "how did he die", but just say you remember him a bit from when you were small - hopefully there's some fun stuff or stories you recall to start the conversation.

Yes, order his death from the gov.uk site above, but keep it to yourself.
Surely more interesting to find out more about his life than death?

Order a death certificate online. If you know his name and approx year of death it's easy. They are about £12. No one need know you have done it.

When your Nan brings him up how does it go? Can you ask questions, even just a "really,I never knew that about Uncle X". So that if she wants to keep talking about him she can. She may be trying to start these conversations, having a few responses ready for next time might help you both.

I think your nan may actually want to discuss it.

I agree with a couple of previous posters, you say that recently your Nan has talked about your Uncle a few times? The next time she mentions him, can you not just ask if she would like to talk about him more? If she shuts the conversation down then you have your answer and you have to decide what you feel you should do in terms of investigations in secret. She may say actually she would like to talk about him...

Well I'd take your Nans lead and when she mentions him again engage in conversation with her. But I'd be cautious about the research. My sister did this and very much upset my Dad by telling him things he didn't want to know. He's 90 and really didn't need to know more details about a very sad circumstance. We all told her not to tell him and I personally couldn't work out why she needed to know. We are not all entitled to know everything.

@WhateverHappenedToMe

Eighteen years ago AIDS was still causing a lot of deaths. Is it possible he was homosexual and contracted HIV? If so, your gran may feel ashamed.

This has actually never crossed my mind tbh.. I don't think it's likely but I couldn't rule it out

It might be worth looking at local newspapers at the time. There may have been an inquest, news article or death/funeral announcement. Local studies in your library can usually help. If you are undecided about ordering it the death certificate. I work on family history but I wouldn't get any certificates that recent personally.

@HelloChompy

I agree with a couple of previous posters, you say that recently your Nan has talked about your Uncle a few times? The next time she mentions him, can you not just ask if she would like to talk about him more? If she shuts the conversation down then you have your answer and you have to decide what you feel you should do in terms of investigations in secret. She may say actually she would like to talk about him...

Or perhaps don’t ask if she wants to talk about him but simply respond to what she says with a light touch question. Asking if she wants to talk about him maybe a bit confrontational (however gently put) and too direct.

I strongly suspect your mum does know how he died but doesn’t want to talk to you about it. Think carefully about how you deal with any information you find out, and respect their wishes.