AIBU to think that team should be available at 9am for meetings?

[Overthebow]

I set up a weekly client meeting for my project team at 9am. I have had a decline from a key team member as it clashes with school drop of time. AIBU to think that 9am is a standard working time and my team should be available to attend important client calls at this time, unless they have a formal working hours agreement in place?

If the bosses are competent then surely they only employ people who [do things that ultimately] bring in the money that is then used to pay the people they employ?

Quite right, Laetitia
However, since none of us have a crystal ball it's not always possible to know how employees will approach these things, especially as they're (quite rightly) not allowed to delve too deeply into childcare arrangements at interview

Fortunately the minority who genuinely are pisstakers - whether over childcare or anything else - tend to show themselves early, so the problems often stem from bosses being too lazy or incompetent to address this properly
And that really is their responsibility

And what about consideration for those in Asia or some parts of Africa who then have to stay late because the OP's colleague wants to do the school run?! Entitlement much.

Honestly, it's just not like that in an international environment. You set meetings within the working day. 9am in any timezone - totally normal and fully acceptable. 9am set by the client - absolutely non-negotiable.

business needs is the phrase here, OP.

Obviously I can't comment on a sector I don't know, julieca - my own has been specialist HCPs - but yes, it's true some are having difficulties recruiting people

I'm not sure, though, that employing absolutely anyone who'll turn up is the answer; in fact that might well be the worst "presenteeism" of all

'I don't see the harm in the colleague joining the call 15 mins late. It'll take the first 15 mins for pleasantries to be exchanged and for the previous meeting to be revisited anyway.'

A good example of completely different working worlds. In my work, we do not spend 15 mins exchanging pleasantries and revisiting the previous meeting. If meetings start at 9, we are into the key decisions by 9.05.

I think some of you are totally missing the point by bringing in presenteeism - this isn’t a case of be in at 9 everyday for no reason, it’s there is a job to be done at 9 and you need to participate

@Walkingwounded

And what about consideration for those in Asia or some parts of Africa who then have to stay late because the OP's colleague wants to do the school run?! Entitlement much.

Honestly, it's just not like that in an international environment. You set meetings within the working day. 9am in any timezone - totally normal and fully acceptable. 9am set by the client - absolutely non-negotiable.

business needs is the phrase here, OP.

Firstly, you have no idea if the 'people in Africa' would be outside their working hours. They may work different hours, to what you expect them to.

Secondly, that's down the client and what they have organised to cover the meeting. They may have people who do or are happy to work late.

Thirdly, op says it can be changed. It's a bit of inconvenience to change it. But it can be.

And Why is this person anymore entitled that someone in Africa not want to work past their hours?

Lets say they don't Are? Are they entitled for not wanting. to remain past their usual working hours?

@Itsmemaggie

I think some of you are totally missing the point by bringing in presenteeism - this isn’t a case of be in at 9 everyday for no reason, it’s there is a job to be done at 9 and you need to participate

I think the recent presenteeism discussion began when I argued against a post claiming that people not wanting to work at 9am when their contracts don't require it is a reason why UK productivity is so poor. It was from a different poster not the OP.

I think some of you are totally missing the point by bringing in presenteeism - this isn’t a case of be in at 9 everyday for no reason, it’s there is a job to be done at 9 and you need to participate.

There’s a nuance missed there. There’s a job to be done that OP has decided should be done at 9.

9am set by the client - absolutely non-negotiable.

Not really. Do you really never say to a client 'that doesn't work for us'

What if the key people were already in meetings, with clients at the time another client wants? One client isn't getting what they want.

Just because a client says 'x time' doesn't mean everyone is either available then or in work.

The conflict could have just as easily been another client meeting. Op didn’t bother to check availability and that is the real problem.

Just because a client says 'x time' doesn't mean everyone is either available then or in work.

Exactly. If it's imperative that staff member X attends a weekly meeting, and they are already committed to something else at that time (another client/dropping kids at school/zumba) then the person organising just says that time won't work if X has to be there - how about alternatives A, B or C. If a potential client is so arrogant they think you should be dropping other client meetings in their favour then you would probably want to avoid them anyway.

@DriftingBlue

The conflict could have just as easily been another client meeting. Op didn’t bother to check availability and that is the real problem.

It looks that way. And really, it's never going to be possible for every client to always get exactly who they want when they want, non-negotiable. Even if everyone only has one client each, which would be a ridiculous and unworkable proposition in many organisations, there are still going to be medical emergencies and annual leave.

I can't get my head around this thread.
A client has requested a specific btime for a meeting, presumably because it's what works for their own team. if it starts later, everyone in the overseas office will have to work after beyond their own office hours. Always being late for a weekly client meeting is not a solution within most businesses.
This employee just isn't in the right job - they need to find something that allows them to do the school run. This job is with international clients in a different time zone which removes the possibility for flexible working at the start of the day.
I can't imagine the call with the client that goes 'sorry we can't speak at 9 coz X has to take his kids to school. Can you just ask your whole team to work later every week? I know your team may have things they need to do after work, but surely they can rearrange everything to suit little Jonny?"

@DriftingBlue

The conflict could have just as easily been another client meeting. Op didn’t bother to check availability and that is the real problem.

This

They're in the wrong job because of a single example of another employee wanting them to do one meeting time that doesn't work for them? That's a substantial reach.

This employee just isn't in the right job - they need to find something that allows them to do the school run. This job is with international clients in a different time zone which removes the possibility for flexible working at the start of the day.

How odd. You think they should leave their job, working for an employer that allows them to work the hours that suit them....because one client, whose meeting can be moved, insists a time they aren't available?

This job does allow them to do the school run.

If every employee has to change their hours the minute one client wants them to, then no job would allow for the school run or any other plans. Because you may be forced to changed hours. Just to suit one client.

This person's employer offers flexible working so, clearly, believes it is possible.

The only one who doesn't is the op and she is this person's manager or running the company.

So why would this person leave?

I can't imagine the call with the client that goes 'sorry we can't speak at 9 coz X has to take his kids to school. Can you just ask your whole team to work later every week? I know your team may have things they need to do after work, but surely they can rearrange everything to suit little Jonny?"

Who says there's a whole team that will work late?

And why is what they want to do on an evening more important than what this person wants to do before work?

9am set by the client - absolutely non-negotiable

Not really. Sometimes clients have to accept that people can't attend exactly when they want.

Also, I'm surprised at people whinging about having to stay til 7. I think far more people accept a 7 pm end to the day than not being able to do the morning school run, presuming they aren't also doing the afternoon school run. I don't know anyone who does a regular morning and afternoon, I don't even see how that can possibly work in a full-time job.

@Nyxs

This employee just isn't in the right job - they need to find something that allows them to do the school run. This job is with international clients in a different time zone which removes the possibility for flexible working at the start of the day.

How odd. You think they should leave their job, working for an employer that allows them to work the hours that suit them....because one client, whose meeting can be moved, insists a time they aren't available?

This job does allow them to do the school run.

If every employee has to change their hours the minute one client wants them to, then no job would allow for the school run or any other plans. Because you may be forced to changed hours. Just to suit one client.

This person's employer offers flexible working so, clearly, believes it is possible.

The only one who doesn't is the op and she is this person's manager or running the company.

So why would this person leave?

I wonder too whether the colleague would be considered unsuitable for the role he's been doing until now if he were busy due to having 9am meetings with another client? After all, the impact on this client would be exactly the same. Colleague is equally unavailable either way.

@JesusIsAnyNameFree

9am set by the client - absolutely non-negotiable

Not really. Sometimes clients have to accept that people can't attend exactly when they want.

Also, I'm surprised at people whinging about having to stay til 7. I think far more people accept a 7 pm end to the day than not being able to do the morning school run, presuming they aren't also doing the afternoon school run. I don't know anyone who does a regular morning and afternoon, I don't even see how that can possibly work in a full-time job.

Happens a lot where I work. It doesn't work in a full-time job, but that hasn't stopped it.

If an employee cannot fulfil the hours of their contract they are not up to job. Presumeably they knew the hours when they were hired? They should find a job with different hours.

I have seen how divisive continued special treatment is morale declines and turnover increases.

If an employee cannot fulfil the hours of their contract they are not up to job. Presumeably they knew the hours when they were hired? They should find a job with different hours.

I mean this has been dealt with repeatedly on this thread. There aren’t specified contractual working times.

There aren’t specified contractual working times.

As has also been pointed out many times, this doesn't make sense in a client facing role. There must be some expectations otherwise the colleague could decide she's working 11pm-7am.

The OP has said that it's a man. Bit of a sexist assumption on your part?

Discriminating against working dads isn't any better.

@Novemberstorm

If an employee cannot fulfil the hours of their contract they are not up to job. Presumeably they knew the hours when they were hired? They should find a job with different hours.

I have seen how divisive continued special treatment is morale declines and turnover increases.

This person IS doing the hours they are contracted to.