AIBU to think that team should be available at 9am for meetings?

[Overthebow]

I set up a weekly client meeting for my project team at 9am. I have had a decline from a key team member as it clashes with school drop of time. AIBU to think that 9am is a standard working time and my team should be available to attend important client calls at this time, unless they have a formal working hours agreement in place?

@Nyxs I stand corrected.

However I have seen this exact problem occur when the contracted hours are all the same.

I dont like 9am meetings because when I get in I need to deal with urgent events overnight first thing. But irrelevant I would make myself ready for 9am if I had a meeting.

Your reasoning for time zones is fine, makes sense. Were that not the case, I think it's just fine to push that meeting to 9.30am.

Flexibility from employers breeds flexibility in employees. Some roles require rigidity in their working hours, others dont. Would the business fold if an employee started st 9.15am, doubtful.

You cant compare your bog standard office worker with a teacher or a doctor etc and trying to is idiotic. Its comparing apples and oranges.

What happens if a change in time doesn’t suit employees in other time zones or more importantly the client?

@TheKeatingFive

There aren’t specified contractual working times.

As has also been pointed out many times, this doesn't make sense in a client facing role. There must be some expectations otherwise the colleague could decide she's working 11pm-7am.

Maybe coming in 15 mins "late" in order to do drop off is the sort of thing that's normal? Would make a lot of sense if it was!

@Parker231

What happens if a change in time doesn’t suit employees in other time zones or more importantly the client?

Come up with a new suggestion for a time?

@Parker231

What happens if a change in time doesn’t suit employees in other time zones or more importantly the client?

What would you do if the key person is with another client at that time.

Whatever, you would do then. You would do here

That's why you should never agree to a meeting involving others, until you have checked they are free.

No you stick to the original time - you can’t keep changing for every employee involved from many countries. You’ll never get a time in the diary.

@Parker231

No you stick to the original time - you can’t keep changing for every employee involved from many countries. You’ll never get a time in the diary.

So if the person in question was already in another meeting, you would insist they cancelled the existing meeting?

I would laugh if a colleague tried to make me cancel a meeting for theirs.

This meeting is outside this person's working hours. Its really that simple.

Op should never have agreed it.

They aren’t in another meeting- they are doing the school run which the other parent could do.

I’m truly amazed that so many people think the client can go hang if they want a meeting at a time they are dropping kids off, or at Zumba!
I would still like some of you to tell me how pick-ups are managed.

@Parker231

They aren’t in another meeting- they are doing the school run which the other parent could do.

For all you know, this man is the only childcare this family has got.

I would just say if this with colleagues yes adjust the time - different if clients in different time zones.

DH has had to do calls v early or late at night and this is how it works .

9am is not unreasonable - maybe just do it on phone

If once a week I am sure you could get a friend's mother to drop off DC once a week & offer something to pay her back - We did this before we got an aur pair to do drop offs and pick ups .

If you have a good job - & you want the money - you need to stick with it I would say and pay for some help - or not. very much your choice

@Pottedpalm

I’m truly amazed that so many people think the client can go hang if they want a meeting at a time they are dropping kids off, or at Zumba! I would still like some of you to tell me how pick-ups are managed.

I think some people think everyone else should revolve their work around them, probably the same sense of entitlement outside of work no doubt.

How do you exactly know what the other parent in this scenario, if there is one, does or doesn't do? Many people don't broadcast how they have shared the childcare. My DD was ill recently and my workplace didn't know that my DH had already wfh to watch her as that was the past and not relevant to the request I was making for the second day of illness. I find it quite alarming that people don't have the imagination to understand that differences exist. Nobody covers for me, nobody can actually do the job that I do in my organisation, my manager only has a vague idea so I know there isn't a colleague picking up the pieces it will all just be waiting for me on my return - I'm sure there are others like me so why get all defensive about it. Even if that isn't the case it is a huge backwards step if organisations are not employing parents because of some preconceived prejudices, more fool them! How about if this man dropping of his child is one of the best employees in the company, brings in money, clients etc. Do you just disregard that fact. If you do you are cutting of your nose despite your face. My DH is very good at bringing in clients for billion pounds Architectural contracts, he has occasionally done the school run. I'm sure considering the quality of his input they are not just going to fire him because some other colleague has no children, is always available but guess what brings pittance to the table! In my job I bring knowledge to the table that others don't have, they can't ask anyone else and would have to pay for an external consultant, I do the school drop off but I work really hard, log back in after school, not paid to, get stuff out with legal timeframes. It is above and beyond.

@Parker231

They aren’t in another meeting- they are doing the school run which the other parent could do.

That's wasn't what I said.

I said whatever you would do, if they were in another meeting then you do that. You said you would stick to the original plan.

Who is to say there's another parent or the other parent can? Maybe their hours are arranged to do the afternoon pick up.

Its out of someone's work hours. They have declined it. Its really that simple.

Its so rude to boom a meeting in for someone outside their working hours without having the decency to even ask.

@Pottedpalm

I’m truly amazed that so many people think the client can go hang if they want a meeting at a time they are dropping kids off, or at Zumba! I would still like some of you to tell me how pick-ups are managed.

No, I think you can decline a meeting that is outside your working hours.

If you have a good job - & you want the money - you need to stick with it I would say and pay for some help - or not. very much your choice

I have a good job AND decline meetings.

I declined a late one today as I have plans after work. Its not a hugely important. But it will run over, due to the content and I am not free.

It's not outside his/her working hours, ffs. it's 9am UK time. Which is 17.00 in Beijing. And 16.00 in Jakarta. Not so bad for Addis. Totally reasonable expectation by the OP.

Not funny explaining to the client in Beijing that really sorry but his/her team will have to stay late because one of your team members (whose salary is partly paid by the client project) wants to drop his/her kids off at school. Client then - justifiably - on the phone to the MD.

it's just not like that in the real world.

@Nyxsv - I get your point but sometimes a client meeting needs to be a certain time - Now if you can refuse that then aces.

Sometimes a meeting needs to be at a certain time and there are ways to get around it to accommodate. But it may take some organisation.

Depends how important the meeting is I guess .

As has also been pointed out many times, this doesn't make sense in a client facing role. There must be some expectations otherwise the colleague could decide she's working 11pm-7am.

I don’t disagree that this sounds like an organisation with poorly set out expectations and one that is running on assumptions and expecting people just to go along with the prevailing culture, rather than actually clearly setting out what’d expected and where there is flexibility.

The result is the mismatch in interpretations of what’s reasonable between OP and the team member.

@Walkingwounded & calls at 2 in the morning or 5 in the morning ? I see your point but I suspect how important client is and how important OP is to them .

I wish her well.

@Walkingwounded

It's not outside his/her working hours, ffs. it's 9am UK time. Which is 17.00 in Beijing. And 16.00 in Jakarta. Not so bad for Addis. Totally reasonable expectation by the OP.

Not funny explaining to the client in Beijing that really sorry but his/her team will have to stay late because one of your team members (whose salary is partly paid by the client project) wants to drop his/her kids off at school. Client then - justifiably - on the phone to the MD.

it's just not like that in the real world.

It is outside his working hours.

Op said there's no contracted hours.

If she wants to book meetings she needs to speak to people first. Not commit to it.

Why would anyone telling the client why someone can't attend? If you have a part time colleague do you tell clients 'sue isn't available that day, she is a part timer because she likes taking the kids to school 2 days a week'

All the client needs to know that exact time time doesn't work for this 'key' person.

Oh also, if a client moaned to my MD that I couldn't attend a meeting outside my working hours my MD, wouldn't have an issue with it.

Or maybe this client will appreciate people having a bit of balance. Quite like the company is flexible and accommodate.

Who are your clients that they drop your company because someone isn't available at the exact time they want?

@Pottedpalm

I’m truly amazed that so many people think the client can go hang if they want a meeting at a time they are dropping kids off, or at Zumba! I would still like some of you to tell me how pick-ups are managed.

Why do you want some of us to tell you how pick ups are managed? What difference would that make to 9am availability?

[quote BasiliskStare]@Nyxsv - I get your point but sometimes a client meeting needs to be a certain time - Now if you can refuse that then aces.

Sometimes a meeting needs to be at a certain time and there are ways to get around it to accommodate. But it may take some organisation.

Depends how important the meeting is I guess .[/quote]
And sometimes they simply can't be at that time. For lots of reasons.

Or there needs be some small adjustments. Like the person attending late.

The problem with the school run, you can't just say 'oh yeah, I can not do that on Wednesdays for a bit'.

My youngest takes himself (year 6) but if I needed to organise breakfast club, I wouldn't be able to book in until January. Ds has only been there a year. I don't know any parents well enough to leave ds in their care or ask them to take him. My family don't live close by.

Dp, will take him. But he usually at work. He couldn't take a morning off a week for an unknown period.

But also, if op had bothered being polite enough to ask, rather than just an invite she would know why he cant/won't change his hours that day

Does it matter to the project if this individual doesn't attend. Often there are a lot of attendees who are really just filling seats.

This person IS doing the hours they are contracted to.

Sometimes there's a difference between doing the hours and doing the job. Perhaps he shouldn't be on the project if it's important that he (or his role) attends the meeting.