AIBU to think that team should be available at 9am for meetings?

[Overthebow]

I set up a weekly client meeting for my project team at 9am. I have had a decline from a key team member as it clashes with school drop of time. AIBU to think that 9am is a standard working time and my team should be available to attend important client calls at this time, unless they have a formal working hours agreement in place?

Ditto the next time someone starts a thread plaintively asking why some people earn higher salaries.

Whatever. I think you'd be surprised.

There's a whole world of work out there that isn't like yours.👍🏻

Economists wondering why the U.K. has low / slow growth in productivity need only consult this thread as to the reason why

ODFD

Inclusivity is separate from protected characteristics. Inclusivity is about all members of the workforce feeling like they belong, valued for their contribution and supported etc

Protected characteristics are set in statute.

To those people who say if you're contracted from 9 ypu need to be ready by 9... sure...But... didn't the OP say there AREN'T specific contranted hours?? I haven't read the whole thread since yesterday so apologies if missed a response to that.

To the teacher who made the argument of being ready before paid hours begin... sure - I arrive at work at 7:30am and don't leave until 6 (and take work home with me). I had parents' evening tonight and got home after 9pm. I also do a huge amount of work through the 'holidays'. But just because the work expectations in teaching are insane, it does not mean that everyone should be subject to unfair practices!! Teaching is in the wrong, not people who want to work when they are paid for working (again, apologies if I misunderstood your point - I only read your most recent post but thought I caught the drift of it). Let's not suggest that anyone should be holding themselves up to the frankly disgusting working standards that education has in place!

@Hoolihan

Why do people think they're paying tax to cover other people's kids? You're contributing what YOU cost when YOU were a kid.

In which case your kids will be paying tax to cover themselves, not to cover our pensions…

But... didn't the OP say there AREN'T specific contranted hours??

I don't think she can be right there though. Who has no contracted hours whatsoever?

The commonly held view is that it’ll be everyone’s turn to benefit when they have children and they describe the organisation as a progressive feminist place to work for.

Yes, I kind of thought that might be the case; shame for those who can't have / don't want / are too old to have children, but I guess they don't count when it comes to holiday leave

It sometimes seems that, when folk go on a general rant about "family responsibilities", what they actually mean is only theirs

So much for the sisterhood - especially when they've already chosen to bring feminism into it

I don't know, but that's what she said. And if she thinks that, then maybe they think that too. And there's the issue... if working hours aren't clearly understood, that's the starting point!

Sorry, the above was to @thekeatingfive

If you are employed to work 9-5, you work those hours (and possibly outside those hours). If you want to work 9.30-4.30, or 10-6 or whatever permutation of that, it's a flexible working request. Not a oh I'll just start at 10 3 days a week if I feel like it.

Many years ago I did flexitime. We had core hours of 10-4 of when you had to be in the office (albeit you could take up to 2 hours as a lunch break). You could only accrue flexitime after 7.30am or up to 7pm. Thereby stopping anyone working 12 hour days or starting/ finishing excessively early. It worked pretty well and was never abused.

Would it work with people working from home? I highly doubt it.

In my department our outbound call volumes have fallen off a cliff in the last 20 months. They are down by 75%. This is because there are a lot of staff slacking in work hours, getting the bare min done but outside of 9-5, I've heard examples of people logging on at 6am, sending a load of emails then basically logging off at 8 to deal with kids and so on. The problem with this is that the emails they're sending are not getting the job done. They need to get on the phone to do that, which can only be done during the hours that other businesses are open or 9-5.

My DP has his own business with several people working for him. He's in the Tech sector, absolutely not a 9-5er, but works whatever time he needs to in order to get the job done and expects the same from his employees. He absolutely has encouraged them to set their own hours, has a duvet day policy, is happy for them to say they are just not in a work frame of mind on a Friday and not work but put in some time over the weekend, that kind of thing. All pretty reasonable and he pays well.

And yet everyone working for him is a complete slacker. If ever a Teams call goes on past 5 even though none of them start at 9 they all start rolling their eyes/ disengaging. Requesting someone to complete a task between Friday and Monday (when it's already a week late) is ignored. It's rare for any of them to work anything close to 8 hours a day (logging on at 10-11 and off at 4 at best is commonplace). Productivity is way below where it should be. As an employer DP could not have been more accomodating - yet that flexibility only works one way.

It's nice to think that flexible, helpful employer = staff that don't take the piss. Sadly that's not always the case.

@surreygirl1987, you're right, of course. Teacher workload is insane but that's not the only reason why I arrive at 7.45 for an 8.50 start.
I simply cannot get on board with the attitude of many here that it's OK to waltz in to work bang on the wire and then start wafting about making coffee and thinking about firing up the computer.
And as someone else mentioned - my work computer takes a good 10 minutes to warm up - and it's around 20 minutes on Thursdays, for some reason! On Wednesday afternoons, every keystroke takes around 30 seconds to respond, too.
Schools eh? Vital infrastructure, apparently, but not when it comes to financing it.

I don't know, but that's what she said. And if she thinks that, then maybe they think that too. And there's the issue... if working hours aren't clearly understood, that's the starting point!

I know the OP says that, but how would it even work? Her colleague could do her hours between 11pm and 7am? It doesn't make any sense.

@MiddleParking

Everyone thinks you’re a dickhead for putting in a weekly 9am call, just so you know.

THIS

Unless you have a justifiable business reason why this meeting cannot be scheduled at any other time you're being deliberately discriminatory towards employees who you know have childcare responsibilities. I'd suggest you consult your HR department for guidance.

Yes, I fully agree, @keatingfive but that's not the point I'm making. My point is, if the OP isn't sure what the working hours are supposed to officially be, it stands to follow that the people she's talking about might not be sure either. If working hours aren't clearly known and understood, I feel it might be too hasty to criticise someone for saying she wants to do school drop-off. She may well be under the impression she's not expected at work until 9:30 - as the OP isn't sure about official working hours, it sounds like the issue might not be with the staff, but a lack of clear policy or contract. If I was in the OP's shoes, I'd want to reserve judgement until I had the facts regarding contracted working hours.

@BoredtoTiers

Yes! Couldn't agree more.

She may well be under the impression she's not expected at work until 9:30 - as the OP isn't sure about official working hours, it sounds like the issue might not be with the staff, but a lack of clear policy or contract

I seriously doubt the contract isn't clear.

Who's contract isn't clear on working hours?

So either she isn't contracted to work from 9am, in which case that should be communicated properly, or she is and she thinks she can disregard it.

What @MiddleParking said

If this makes a difference we are all employed and are reasonably well-paid, well above the average UK wage.

I earn twice the average wage, you could be paying me double that, I still can’t find a childminder who can sit with my disabled daughter until her taxi arrives at any point between 8.30 and 9 to take her to school. Even if I could find an external childminder to send her to, who was accessible (and they are rare) the LA won’t send a taxi there for her. When she was in primary school, she didn’t get transport, the school couldn’t support her in breakfast club and I had no choice but to do the school run but we didn’t always make it by 9, depended how her legs were behaving in a day. Thankfully my husband also had flex working so if either of us HAD to do a 9am, the other could cover, but many are not so fortunate. My 9am was booked out in my diary, but I was more than willing to take a 9pm meeting. Funnily enough nobody ever took me up on that.

Your company has flex hours, you shouldn’t expect everyone to be available at 9am.

@Pinkyxx
"Unless you have a justifiable business reason why this meeting cannot be scheduled at any other time you're being deliberately discriminatory towards employees who you know have childcare responsibilities. I'd suggest you consult your HR department for guidance."

She already said that it was for a multi zone conference and the later she holds it, the later the people in Asia have to work. Maybe the want to do something for their kids too? Like maybe see them.

and yet everyone working for him is a complete slacker. If ever a Teams call goes on past 5 even though none of them start at 9 they all start rolling their eyes/ disengaging. Requesting someone to complete a task between Friday and Monday (when it's already a week late) is ignored. It's rare for any of them to work anything close to 8 hours a day (logging on at 10-11 and off at 4 at best is commonplace). Productivity is way below where it should be. As an employer DP could not have been more accomodating - yet that flexibility only works one way.

Your DH has a management issue.

*I seriously doubt the contract isn't clear.

Who's contract isn't clear on working hours?*

Yes I fully agree that that would be daft... but then why isn't the OP herself clear on whether there are fixed hours? She said it's flexible and that she doesn't know what the hours are supposed to be anyway didn't she? My point is just that if the OP doesn't know, then maybe that's a common issue?

I agree with you that it is ridiculous if that's the case! I'm just repeating what the OP said (unless I've misinterpreted her!). I'd say the first step is finding out what the contracted hours are supposed to be!

I'd say the first step is finding out what the contracted hours are supposed to be!

Agreed 😆

I don't understand how a business with international clients can function without knowing what people's hours are. Can people just choose to work from 10pm - 6am if they fancy?

Can people just choose to work from 10pm - 6am if they fancy?

I seriously doubt it

Haven't read the thread... how do you propose the employee gets their children to school if they have to be at a meeting at 9am? I don't get home until 9:10am