AIBU to think that team should be available at 9am for meetings?

[Overthebow]

I set up a weekly client meeting for my project team at 9am. I have had a decline from a key team member as it clashes with school drop of time. AIBU to think that 9am is a standard working time and my team should be available to attend important client calls at this time, unless they have a formal working hours agreement in place?

It's really shocking that people see a 9am meeting as something so unreasonable. I have worked in the NHS, civil service and government and 9am meetings are totally normal. Meeting papers come out a few days before so you have plenty of time to prep for a meeting.

I'm all for flexible working for everyone, but meetings have to be held and when you need various people there from various organisations, especially for those of us who do patient facing work, it's difficult to fit everything in.

Moving a meeting 10 mins or whatever will often put out the diary for the rest of the day, can mean that another meeting has to be re arranged and that can be days and weeks later and generally cause massive delays, because meetings aren't pointless and decisions about patient care, policy, pathways, treatments etc are dependent on the discussions at those meetings. The culture of people just sitting around talking and nit doing probably only ever existed in the minds of people who never worked, or had jobs that bore little responsibility.

I'm thankful for my sector and organisation. I took a pay cut from my old role to my new one because I value flexibility more.

Flexibility offers better oppurtunitites to improve diversity and is more inclusive. We'll never have a diverse workforce if we don't change the way we work. A solution could be found for this situation that isn't a demand.

@surreygirl1987

If you don't have specified core hours, and staff can be flexible with when they work, then OF COURSE you should shift the time of the meeting to accommodate someone with kids trying to manage the school run! It might make very little difference to you, but all the difference in the world to her.

This! You sound unreasonable OP. Push it back 15 minutes if they're a core member of the team or have them join midway

Oh and when you have meetings where people are joining from different countries you also have their time zones to work around as well as diary commitments. I'd say 9am is a good time. I've had meetings have to start at 6am and 10pm before now!

Have you even discussed this with the colleague who can't make 9am?

Are they aware that you are happy for them to dial in anywhere?

Why cannot they provide you with any eye information in advance?

How do you intend to manage without them if they are on leave, sick, etc.

Are they easily replaced?

Why not speak to them directly and explain, it's a key client meeting that cannot be changed in terms of timing?

Ask for their proposed solutions for their absence? Briefing you or another colleague?

Dialling in slightly later and coming their section later in the call

Dialing into every second call.

If it was monthly and they missed them all, I would understand your concern but is their contribution so fundamentally important every single week, surely not?

Tell them your position and that you are willing to work with them re proposed solutions and see what they suggest? 2 professionals should be able to find some middle ground.

Where I work, the only people getting flexibility are the parents. The rest of us are picking up whatever needs doing when the school runs are on

Out of interest, AudacityBaby, how do the staff with DCs feel about that?

After all, we're told - quite rightly - that fairness is important, that women should be supported, and that we should all think of others and not just ourselves, so I'd expect they have a view?

There is no earthly reason for a 9am meeting.

The reason, as op has said, is that the meeting includes people in different time zones. 9am in the UK might be 5 or 6pm where another partipant is. Pushing back the time of the meeting means they have to hang around later at the end of their working day.

Honestly in a lot of professions meetings have already taken place by 9am. Its bizarre that this is even a 'thing' where employees think they can dictate the hours they are willing to work to their employers.

I imagine it will all settle down in a year or so and things get back to normal. Bit like the 4 day working week...

This thread is a real eye opener. In my job full time staff (not me thank goodness) have a meeting either in person or on teams every morning at 8.20am followed by a non-negotiable timetable including set appointments and more meetings throughout the day.
No flexibility, no ‘running late’ no school drop offs, no clocking off early.

I’d love a leisurely 9am start.

Honestly in a lot of professions meetings have already taken place by 9am

This.

Organisations who enable and people who have 'leisurely' 9am starts in addition to flexibility in general, and make it work should be role models for others tbh. They are doing something right. Not all organisations or roles can accommodate this but many can.

*Its bizarre that this is even a 'thing' where employees think they can dictate the hours they are willing to work to their employers.
*
It's not bizarre.It's just not in your sector obviously. But judging by this thread lots of people do have that working experience.

I've never dictated to anybody tbh. It's about getting the job done even if I do drop offs pick ups.

Honestly in a lot of professions meetings have already taken place by 9am

Exactly.

It's totally dependent on seniority, timezones, sector, org flexibility etc as to whether this is a ridiculous ask or not. In my career/role I'd be questioning the judgement of a staff member declining a team meeting within core work hours every single week. Diaries are so difficult to juggle the knock on impact of trying to please everyone doesn't work and would impact on clients unacceptably. Flexibility can only go so far - people are there to work.

It's only weekly to be fair to OP. It's not that hard to

It really depends on the profession, but I wish meeting organisers could get

Clearly the person who can't attend the meeting should throw their child in the general direction of the nursery, only slowing down slightly, so that they can be in the weekly meeting which is crucial to the survival of the planet.

Bunch of absolute tools on this thread.

@SunShinesBrightly

This thread is a real eye opener. In my job full time staff (not me thank goodness) have a meeting either in person or on teams every morning at 8.20am followed by a non-negotiable timetable including set appointments and more meetings throughout the day. No flexibility, no ‘running late’ no school drop offs, no clocking off early.

I’d love a leisurely 9am start.

That may make sense at your firm. It would be a disaster at others. My own works by putting together ever changing teams that meet project teams and most members need many hours of quiet solitude to focus on their work in between rare meetings. No one would accomplish anything if every time they got in a groove and really dig into a complex problem they had to stop for another meeting.

@madisonbridges

"I’m cringing at some of the ridiculous “you must be at your desk at 9am otherwise your colleagues have to pick up the slack” comments on here. I sense some bitterness and jealousy from those of who really resent parents who work flexibly. Why the hate? Children are important and I’m sorry it grips your shit that some people would rather take their children to school at 9am than sit on your dry Zoom call."

I think this shows a lack of understanding of other workplaces. It might be that you have allotted work so it's your sole responsibility to finish that and nothing else. In that case flexibility doesn't affect me so crack on. However, where I worked, I had allotted work plus if other staff people were absent because of child problems, I had to cover their work as well. Remember your children are important to you; they're not that important to me.

Having to pick up additional work because of other people’s chidcare problems is shit, I’d be annoyed in your situation.

However can I ask: would you be upset if you had to cover someone because their elderly parent was ill?

The reason I ask is I sometimes feel there is a specific level of ire directed towards parents who have to leave work early/come in late because of childcare issues because “they chose to have children”.

If someone said their mother had dementia and had to leave early to relieve a home help would your attitude be “your mother is not that important to me?” I doubt it as that would be seen as heartless.

However it seems to be ok to tell parents who juggle children and working (far from an easy situation) to just crack on because it’s selfish to expect others to make accommodations for them.

I don’t really understand or agree with that logic. Should parenting and working be restricted to people who never have be a ‘burden’ on their colleagues, e.g. those who can afford full time nannies or work in sectors like mine where you work flexibly?

I 100% understand it’s galling to pick up your colleagues work and in your situation I’d raise the issue with managers, ask for a raise and/or look for a new job. But a tiny bit of understanding would be welcome. Those pesky working parents who can’t make 9am calls or stay until 6pm are raising this country’s future tax payers after all…

9am is hardly early. I start 6am and sometimes need to come in an hour early.

@wewereliars

Clearly the person who can't attend the meeting should throw their child in the general direction of the nursery, only slowing down slightly, so that they can be in the weekly meeting which is crucial to the survival of the planet.

Bunch of absolute tools on this thread.

Or maybe find a job which suits their lifestyle. Not the employer’s problem if they can’t get to work on time.

Having children isn't a "lifestyle".

It's a crucial part of the survival of our species and the functioning of our economic system.

Let's not pretend it's something women are doing by themselves just for a jolly.

9am is hardly early. I start 6am and sometimes need to come in an hour early.

Really.

Or maybe find a job which suits their lifestyle. Not the employer’s problem if they can’t get to work on time.

I think you'll find that sometimes it actually is.

Flexi time, part time, job share, back to work schemes for certain professions.

@unim

Having children isn't a "lifestyle".

It's a crucial part of the survival of our species and the functioning of our economic system.

Let's not pretend it's something women are doing by themselves just for a jolly.

Are men not doing it too? Why are we continuing to centre women in discussions around school runs etc, men should be taking equal responsibility too, surely? Especially in this new world of what seems to be unlimited flexibility. Also most people have children because they want them rather than some altruistic keeping the species going, why can't we be honest about that.

@SeemingSeamstress

Honestly in a lot of professions meetings have already taken place by 9am

Exactly.

It's totally dependent on seniority, timezones, sector, org flexibility etc as to whether this is a ridiculous ask or not. In my career/role I'd be questioning the judgement of a staff member declining a team meeting within core work hours every single week. Diaries are so difficult to juggle the knock on impact of trying to please everyone doesn't work and would impact on clients unacceptably. Flexibility can only go so far - people are there to work.

But that's just it though, it's not within core hours because they haven't set any.

We have core hours 9.30-16 and some people have taken the job exactly because they can do drop offs in the mornings. I don't bat an eyelid if someone declines a meeting before 9.30 but they are less likely to be promoted if they don't attend meetings outside of the core hours, which I think is fair enough.

@MiddleParking

Everyone thinks you’re a dickhead for putting in a weekly 9am call, just so you know.

This. Deeply antisocial OP.